Zero Tolerance

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by OSLO, Sep 5, 2007.

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    Ok, I admit it - I sneaked a peek at the Daily Wail. But imagine my surprise, when I found myself agreeing with one of their columnists - to a large extent. The article concerns the use of zero tolerance in bringing law and order back to our streets, using the experience of New York as an example. It specifically takes recent "misdemeanours" as examples of judicial ill-handling in the UK in order for a true zero-tolerance attitude to fight crime. Although I agree with the approach and philosophy that is proposed, what I don't agree with is the measure of the sanctions imposed. In the cases used as examples (sausage-throwing kid, feet-on-seat student), a measured approach should have been taken, rather than a court appearance. However, what the article fails to mention is that if this policy were to be used, then police recruitment would have to be far higher than now.

    Any thoughts?
  2. I am certainly a supporter of at leats greatly reduced tolerance if not zero tolerance.

    One of the ways that young persons learn what is acceptable and what is not is by pushing the boundaries. Now this is a natural process and is exhibited by many social mamals in their family and pack units. The problem today is that when youngsters push at the boundaries no santion is taken and thus the concept that this is acceptable rises. We do need to clamp down effectively. We don't need new powers, or laws, what we have is quite adequate, we just need action. Much of the anti social behaviour carried out by kids today is done because they can, there is no sanction. This does need to end.

    The problem with the Wail is that it is a bit like the boy that cried wolf, they distort some things so much that when they do hit on something they get ignored just because they are the Wail
  3. Anti social behavior is exactly that,they dont have any social graces or values because they arent taught any today.

    What happened to being told what was right and what was wrong.

    This surely must come from parents and also schools.
    It ought to be part of the school ciriculum instead of them being more concerned where abouts they are in the league tables with results etc.
    My daughters school always went on about the high achievers they had but little attention paid to the ones slipping thru the net who could have done with the support and guidance to prevent them going off the straight and narrow.
    Its about time we went back to the old fashioned values of respecting others peoples wishes instead of just looking after number one.
  4. It would be nice to enforce a zero tolerance policy, however in truth it is nothing more than a pipe dream.In new york for instance they increased the number of police by 400 percent which put a policeman on practically every other street corner. The results were startling and crime decreased to unbeleivable levels and did in fact stay and remain low after the number of policemen were gradually reduced.
    This government however has no intention of investing that sort of money to improve peoples lives, it will merely promote puppets into positions where they can control them and massage crime figures (for truly appalling misrepresentation of facts and figures see imigration and unemployment figures).
    Sadly the only way we are going to improve the attitudes of young people in this country is if we as adults start getting involved and challenge those who beleive they have free reign to do as they please.And lets face it, only when police start turning a blind eye to dads thumping chavs on the street corner do we have any chance of claiming our streets back.The police need to strongly shift their perception of what are the rules/law and what is just plain right and beneficial to the community and we in turn have to put our full support behind the police even when they make mistakes (and they do occasionally as we all do).
  5. Vigilanteism is not the answer, satisfying though it may be, because at the end of the day it simply tells the chavs that might is right and when they get a bit bigger they will be calling round on yo with their mates.

    We don't actually need to hire lots more plods, rather we need to cut their admin stuff so they can spend more than 10 minutes a day on the streets.

    We need less admin, effective sanctions, high speed justice, and a far lower tolerance of bad behaviour.
  6. Smack a chav still has a far more satisfying ring to it than hug a hoodie.:)
  7. I fully agree with the line about no need for more laws. If the police started to charge oiks with being drunk and distorderly, breaching of the peace, causing criminal damage, perverting the course of justice, and a whole plethora of other "minor" crimes, and we had a judicial system which actually punished the little gits, then that'd be a start. But we need more plods on the street in the short term. In my little town, there is a known bad element responsible for most of the crime. The plod have 2 or 3 officers who are part time and rarely seen around the place. Of course, when the little sh*ts do throw stones, damage property, etc, the plod complain about not being able to do anything without proof. Meanwhile the local Council advocates CCTV everywhere. Do we really want to become a CCTV-intensive country? I don't.
  8. I do.

    And I agree with a national DNA and fingerprint database.

    I have nothing to worry about, because I do not commit crimes that need more than a speeding ticket.

    Give the criminals something to worry about, for a change and let's see some severe curtailment of "rights" for those who deny the same to their victims.
  9. This would be nice but as was said it's a pipe dream, what the news people won't tell you is all the homeless and beggars and witless that were rounded up in these sweeps by the NYPD and where are they now?

    In the boroughs, I've been to NY back when times square was entertainment in of itself (more porn parlours and skin shops then you can shake a stick at) but Mickey Mouse and the Mayor cleaned it up, only they did a cosmetic job, all they really did was hide the problems and shifted them onto somebody else, if you keep watching the US Presidential race, you will see some of the truth about Giuliani come out that isn't so nice..

    Zero tolerance and three strikes your out, hasn't helped the US, if anything they are letting people out early because their prisons are full to bursting, they imprison non violent offenders ( caught with some weed) and throw them in with the worst of the worst, so by the time they come back out they are worse then when they went better school for learning the tricks of the trade then the prison system.. :afro:
  10. The point is that these are the tools that lead to an authoritarian state. Ok, maybe the government of today isn't going to turn into the right-wing fascists depicted in V for Vendetta, or 1984, but it would be far easier for those scenarios to be played out if we do their work for them and put the tools in place. The potential for abuse from both CCTV coverage fo the nation and from a national DNA base is too big. Add to that the government is hardly the model for security as far as personal details are concerned, or for potential abuse/misuse/breaching the database, and you end up with anarchy.
  11. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

  12. Well being again on the receiving end of crime, four tyres slashed on my car last night. I don't care is the prisons are full, build some more and lock up the scrotes.
  13. We choose to believe what we choose to believe. As long as we live in a state that is pretty near to being democratic, I am content that such anti-crime methods are warranted. I have spent many years subject to the rules of the RN and don't believe that I have suffered greatly as a result, even taking into consideration many of the numpties whose job it is to apply those rules!

    I want the weight of the law on the side of those who obey the rules and the victims of crime, which it currently is patently not.
  14. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    Think carefully before getting to excited about everyone providing DNA samples. Governments and this one in particular are always on the look out for ways to make money. They already sell a lot of the so called personal details held by people like the DVLA.
    As DNA testing gets more advanced Insurance companies in particular would pay good money to get their hands on your results to enable them to price their policies so as to better cover them from those that are going to get serious illness later in life or early death.
  15. We don't need zero tollerence or more laws - we have far too many laws that most cops know nothing about anyway.

    What we need is more Police Officers on the streets who are allowed to exercise their powers fairly, use discretion where necessary but most of all we need the courts to be more consistent with their sentencing and hand down harsher sentences to repeat offenders.

    What we have at the moment is insuffience numbers of Police Officers supported by PCSOs. PCSOs have limited powers and are the governments cheap and ineffective replacement being used to con the public - after all why do you think their uniform is almost identical.

    We have too many government targets to try and achieve as opposed to concentrating on providing a quality of service to the public, we have too many repeat offenders who are being let off too many times with a slap on the wrist...the list goes on and on but what we really need is more Police Officers IN UNIFORM ON THE STREETS - not in specialist departments who we never see.

    You got me ranting now !!! :threaten: :threaten: :threaten:
  16. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    You forgot the Specials who now wear exactly the same uniform as a full time officer, with nothing to distinguish the two, another government move to con the public that there are more proper Bobbies on the beat.
  17. Yeah, true - but isn't that just the same as taking the R's away from the RNR? One big government con - one big happy family !
  18. The reality is that we have plenty officers, they are just not able to get enough time on patrol because of all the paperwork required today. Do something about the paperwork and we get lots more plods all for free.

    As for tolerance it does need to be way below what it is today, that's why all the youngsters think they can get away with things, because they do because the plods are not there and if they are they ignore the kids because lifting them just creates more papaer work.
  19. Maxi, I think your quote above sums it all up, spot on...
  20. Plenty of officers ?? What part of the country (or Planet) are you from?

    I am a plod, if you hadn't guessed, it's not just the paperwork - we need more front line cops because of the increase in population, increase in crime, increase in illegal immigration, increase in motor vehicles just to name but a few.

    Less paperwork would be lovely but less performance targets even better

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