WRNS "allowed" to join the diving branch

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by frogman007, Aug 2, 2010.

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  1. Thoughts people..................

    The RN has promulgated the following 'Galaxy' announcement:
    Employment of females in the Clearance Diving specialisation

    The Royal Navy seeks to ensure that wherever possible, discriminatory practices are rescinded, The Second Sea Lord, following endorsement by the NAVB, has therefore announced that the Warfare Sub-Branches of MCDO and CD are henceforth open to volunteers of any gender. Any member of the Service now has the opportunity to apply for and qualify as a Clearance Diver (CD), or Mine Warfare and Clearance Diving Officer (MCDO).

    This follows work commissioned by 2SL with the Institute of Naval Medicine (INM) that concluded that females are at no greater risk of suffering from a decompression illness than males.

    The selection test and qualifying process for CD and MCDO specialisation is necessarily demanding due to the nature of the specialist branch tasking. Successful applicants can expect to enjoy a professionally challenging and stimulating career in a physically and mentally demanding field. Exchange posts in Canada , Australia , the USA , Oman and Saudi Arabia are also possible in this specialisation and the special pay and allowances are an additional incentive. Some assignments with the Fleet Diving Squadron will result in deployment to Afghanistan on frontline EOD operations.

    Full details of the application procedures can be found in 2010DIN07-056 and BR1066 Article 1603. These will be reissued in due course to reflect the new policy.

    Personnel interested in becoming an MCDO or CD should discuss this with their Line Manager or CO and then contact their Career Manager for further guidance.
     
  2. Guns

    Guns War Hero Moderator

  3. All those not in the diving branch you mean.
     
  4. Guns

    Guns War Hero Moderator

    Why, do you feel that it will be the end of your branch or that some how females will be lesser divers???
     
  5. Yes they will be lesser divers. It DOES NOT work off shore ie sat diving in the North sea. If you could log into our diving network site (includes lots of ex's) it will show comments of them getting binned off shore for being shite and weak. Some of the jobs we do are f****** back breaking, cold, wet and shit jobs. Do not want to see the standards drop. If they 100% come up to grade then fine, but can't see it. I have insight into what happened when a female ships diver couldn't save a colleauge as she was too weak (yes he died). That made my mind up there and then.
     
  6. "From what I have seen and the reports I have had from my old police team they have one very good female and one in charge who treats it a bit as a 'jolly hockey sticks' job. In the space of 4 years they have lost 3 divers i know of, (out of 8!), because the dynamics on the team changed to such a degree that, despite up to 12 years on the team, some of the males felt they no longer wanted to continue. Productivity, as I said, went down. Too much pandering and not enough just getting on with the job... Talk about light the blue touch paper"

    Just one quote from the divers (private) network
     
  7. Well, bit of a shame that it's happening then. Feel free to f*ck off, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. You're not one of those Diver ex-SR's who want to "defend" the branch, which will eventually result in your branch closing?

    (and yes, I bit. My bad...)
     
  8. As is usual in these things, they will drop the standard until the ladies pass the new standards and then pronounce they are fully capable of doing the same job as a male CD.
     
  9. The quote I pasted is from an ex branch member yes. However I am still in and serving so feel I have a fair insight into the branch working, certainly enough to make informed comments. Oh and I have no intentions of f*cking off.
     
  10. Dripping about doing whole ship duties, complaining that they have to go to sea, and insisting that they have the "right" to wear mixed, gash rig, because they're at "permanent notice to move"...?!

    Don't get me wrong, they do a job, but frankly we pay a lot of money to maintain a niche capability. EOD/IEDD doesn't need a diver, MCM can and is done by a UUV; some of the other Fleet team jobs do require divers, but I know there are work-arounds. And don't forget that there are no longer MCDOs - they are MWO's with a Diving Supervision qualification.

    Perhaps the fact that it required outside intervention to show that a 25% pass rate for AB(D)2's wasn't actually necessary, and more a demonstration that you weren't teaching it right? Or maybe you just lowered the standards wholesale over the last 18 months?
     
  11. Guns

    Guns War Hero Moderator

    Why would they drop the standards??? They have plenty of people going for the job so there is no need to drop any standard to recruit. The TPS and OPS for Diver is set and is gender neutral.

    If you are implying that the Staff at the diving school will sub-counciously let females have an easier ride then again I think you are wrong.
     
  12. The only problem I can see is the fighting over the mirrors, it will all end up in tears :p
     
  13. "Don't get me wrong, they do a job, but frankly we pay a lot of money to maintain a niche capability. EOD/IEDD doesn't need a diver, MCM can and is done by a UUV"

    Here we go again! Another quote without facts. MCM's cannot do all jobs and certainly not UUV's. Hence why we have Very Shallow Water teams who work in direct support of 3 CDO brigade ie 539 ASRM, clearing LCU lanes prior to assaulting beaches. All done in the night under stressful conditions. Think a minehunter might give itself away slightly! MCM's can certainly not do Maritime Counter Terrorism (love to see a minehunter do a 120ft climb up a caving ladder in the North sea!!). Assault IEDD is carried out by DIVERS having done sometimes 3 hour dives onto rigs in freezing conditions. Sadly what you have prob seen is newly qualified divers strutting around that have not had a team and a chance to be corrected in the mannerisms. Happy to show anyone without a stubborn brain around our diving teams. Having seen this and how we work you might just change your mind....
     
  14. Love the **** attitude from the halfwit "Don't let the door hit your arse" CNUT!!! Alfred you sound like a MW muppet /failed CD...not bitter eh?

    Offshore it didn't work, commercial companies know it doesn't work, as a commercial company we have to provided results for the clients money, we have to employ the most productive and professional divers we can. It ain't a fukcing easy day out job. The same applies to spending tax payers money...we want able divers to do the work..not PC semi skilled unable divers, be they men or women.

    The RNR girls that "qualified" back in the 80's were still as fat and feckin useless at the end of the course as they were at the begining,and if they were male they'd have been binned. The fact that it was some Admirals "whizzo idea" was the only reason they "passed".

    When they let a few "pass" the course, let them kill themselves or others and after we've wasted millions of pounds on them...get the twat who made the descion to qualify them, so we can execute the cnut for his stupidity.
     
  15. Ha Spider I was being a little more diplomatic, but hey well said. Yeah prob some thick Muppet with a grudge over divers. Anyone is entitled to have a crack at the course
     
  16. I was a Ship's Diver, and well past the career point where I can be an MCDO, even if I wanted to. I have no bitterness whatsoever, just a clear eyed appreciation that the conservatism of your branch will lead to it being shut.

    007 - I fully agree that an MCMV can't do VSW MCM, nor can it do AIEDD - I never said they did (in fact, I tried to be circumspect about those bits of your role). But on the basis we're about to slash whole areas of capability (amphib or carrier strike, your choice), loosing VSW MCM won't cause even 30 sec's of heart break outside of Horsea Island. And I have no doubt that the RE would be more than willing to cross train on the O2 sets the Shakies use and provide the AIEDD capability (or Alpha Troop do a diving course).

    The only reason why women couldn't previously dive was solely medical, and that bar has been lifted. I am just old enough to view the after-effects of female integration at sea, and also remember the removal of the ban against gays/lesbians serving out. In both cases the dire predictions of the old and bold never came true, and I submit the same will happen again here. And my words regarding the door weren't actually mine, they were 1SL's*, in response to another SR complaining about the "dilution" of the RN. Like it or lump it, it's happening.

    *Adm Lord West, regarding "homo's" at sea.
     
  17. next on the hit list...

    women on submarines...again (imo) that would mean the start of the end of another elite group
     
  18. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    First thought - There are no WRNS anymore.

    Second thought - The backlash to ATG's posts are interesting (didn't think he was an ex MWO), there is almost a tangible whiff of testosterone which betrays a body that I always held to be professional and above that.

    Anyway, I fail to see why there is so much heat and angst, if the MW community think females aren't up to it then all we have to do is wait and see what happens when some apply. We already know that a lot of the male candidates struggle and when it gets to the more niche groupings FDU1, VSW work it's even harsher for ALCON. So all of your fears may be unfounded as you may never see a female pass because you are the most perfect physical specimens in the water and they cannot meet your lofty standards.

    I fail to see why so much fuss is made, you may not think a female can make the grade but you may also be pleasantly surprised. I'd like to think that perhaps the branch would welcome the female that did make the grade and not continue to make life difficult for that person(s) but the tone of the responses thus far doesn't fill me with much, if any, hope.
     
  19. "
    "007 - I fully agree that an MCMV can't do VSW MCM, nor can it do AIEDD - I never said they did (in fact, I tried to be circumspect about those bits of your role). But on the basis we're about to slash whole areas of capability (amphib or carrier strike, your choice), loosing VSW MCM won't cause even 30 sec's of heart break outside of Horsea Island. And I have no doubt that the RE would be more than willing to cross train on the O2 sets the Shakies use and provide the AIEDD capability (or Alpha Troop do a diving course)."

    Here we go again. Standfast the joint sevice EOD operator of which there are none (yet)-RE's do not do IEDD (FACT), not counting WOII Rob F**** RE who did it for instructional duties only.Don't get me started on that. I am Bomb Disposal Officer and do know what I am talking about! RE's are only air divers, of which many have no EOD background (ie not all RE divers have bomb disposal quals) so why train them up to carry out o2 swims when we are already qauled in both disciplines??? Yeah really cost effective. Oh the sets the shakies use (never call them that again you wouldn't know having never worked with them (and yes I have a lot of knowledge my brother is a "shakie") is SOBA the same set MCT use. So again more lacking of knowledge. The gulf between ships divers ( and yes I thought they were good lads) and a good CDU team is maaaaaasive.
     
  20. Of course it won't work, women are not as physically capable as men, as you can already see within the police and fire service and as mentioned by another learned member offshore.

    When they can beat a man in the 100 meters in the Olympics I may change my mind, the people who make these crazy decisions need to get out from behind their mahogany desks in the MOD and step into the real world.
     

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