Wouldn’t you feel safer with a gun?

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Hmm, it does seem like we're pissing into the wind when it comes to tackling crimes committed with weapons obtained through the 'black market', especially when you hear about things like this:

Pentagon probes missing weapons and contract fraud

By Kristin Roberts

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon's independent watchdog has launched a probe into the military's inability to account for weapons in Iraq after reports that Kurdish militants were using U.S. arms to attack Turkey, the Defense Department said on Wednesday.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said the department's inspector general will go to Iraq next week with an 18-member assessment team to investigate the problem.

"Since January, the inspector general's office has been thoroughly investigating reports of unaccounted-for weapons as well as allegations of arms ending up in the wrong hands," Morrell said.

"Secretary Gates, who since May has twice received lengthy briefings on the progress of the probe, is deeply troubled by the reports and the allegations."

Turkey, an important ally for Washington in the Muslim world, has repeatedly said the U.S. government has not done enough to clamp down on Kurdish militants based in northern Iraq. In July, Turkey's ambassador said Kurdish leaders were diverting weapons meant for local Iraqi security forces to the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) militants.

Morrell said he did not know if evidence existed to show U.S. weapons were being used by insurgents in Iraq.

"It is unclear, and that's why there's an investigation taking place."

CONTRACTING PROBES

Separately, the Army has launched two investigations into possible fraud involving thousands of contracts for services in Iraq and Kuwait after 20 civilian and military Army employees were indicted on charges that included bribery.

The scope of the fraud remains unknown, but Army Secretary Pete Geren called the problem significant.

More than 18,000 contracts valued at about $3 billion have been awarded by the Army to support the Iraq war since 2003. As of August 28, there were 76 ongoing criminal investigations involving possible contract fraud, the Army said.

A U.S. Army major, his wife and sister were indicted this month in a suspected scheme to accept $9.6 million in exchange for contracts for bottled water and other goods and services for troops in Kuwait and Iraq.

An Army captain also has been charged with accepting a $50,000 bribe to steer military contracts in Iraq, according to prosecutors.

"The reports suggest that we've got serious issues in this area, particularly coming out of the Kuwait contracting community," Geren told reporters. "I don't know how to describe the scale, but it's significant."

The first Army investigation will examine the overall contracting organization, which Army officials say lacks the resources needed to handle the sharp rise in contracts following the start of the Iraq war. A commission appointed to investigate the operation will deliver a report in 45 days.

The Army also charged a new task force with examining all 18,000 contracts awarded by its contracting office in Kuwait. Most of those covered support services at Army facilities in Kuwait, like laundry and dining services.

[Source]
 
Rincewind said:
Close borders, get more customs officers policing the points of entry to the UK and we might be able to control the flow of illegal firearms and drugs coming into the UK

R


Utopian :bball: :bball:

The Uk is an island and has a lot of shoreline aswell as harbours .

The snag is the availability of 'weapons ' not just firearms is unbelievable.
At the moment the knife seems to be a favourite - and it doesn't make a noise .

You can ban and further ban----- it won't stop killing .

Cars kill------so can cricket bats or Golf clubs .
Smoking is supposed to ---however they haven't banned it yet
Brooon is getting too much revenue from us!!

:nemo: :nemo:
 

AfterSSE

War Hero
Greenie said:
The Uk is an island and has a lot of shoreline aswell as harbours .

Longest Coastline
Canada's coastline is the world's longest at 243,792 km or 151,485 miles (including the coastline of the country's 52,455 islands.)

Your point? Most of the illegal weapons that enter Canada are thanks to our neighbour to the South, you know that porous border they are always crying about, because our weed somehow always finds itself going to California via Vancouver, yet their guns keep coming North.

Where there is a need, there will always be a supply...simple economics... :thumright:
 
safewalrus said:
Actually Rocket, technically yes - think about it, if you have the potential! They have to do that and nobody could say otherwise!

It's weak minded people like you who accept the propaganda! but don't worry I won't sleep easy in my bed knowing you've thrown the towel in already

So you believe armed revolution against an elected government is a legitimate political action that should be encouraged.
 
Rincewind said:
two things spring to my mind.

1) every time some nutter kills masses of people in the UK with firearms the government tightens up already restrictive gun laws for us law abiding firearms owners.

2) if more people owned legal firearms there would be less crime commited for fear of consequences.

Example - 2 identical houses in same street - a burgalar wants to break into one, but mine has a NRA sticker in the window.... whos house will he break into?

all these recent shootings/killings involving firearms have been with illegally obtained section 5 firearms. but they are easy to get hold of with customs being wide open for the black market twats to sell what they like.

Close borders, get more customs officers policing the points of entry to the UK and we might be able to control the flow of illegal firearms and drugs coming into the UK

R

A few thoughts regarding the ownership of guns for self defence.

Just for a moment think of the scene in your city center at chucking out time as the usual bunch of lager louts indulge in their traditional punch ups, but now many have guns (for self defence of course). How long will it be before the first gun is used, how long will it be before the traditional fight at the OK coral takes place in every town center on every Friday and Staturday night.

Equally if the victin is likely to have a gun how many criminals will continue to go about their business unarmed. How many of these armed criminals will not shoot when the victim makes a sudden movement. What will be the balance in lives lost between criminals and victims.

How many domestics will turn into shootings because of the availability of a gun for 'self defence'. It happens all the time in the US, talk to the police despatchers, they all have stories of taking a call for a domestic and then hearing the caller plead for their life before the fatal shot is fired.

Just a few thoughts in favour of wider availability of guns for self defence.

Having said all that I do believe that there are good grounds though for greater availability of hand guns for sporting use, and there is certainly no grounds for a total ban on the private ownership of guns
 
Rocket_Ron said:
safewalrus said:
Remember that any state where only the police have the guns (legally) is in fact a police state!


That gets my award for the stupidist statement this month.



Would you say that as gun clubs are extinct in the UK, and some of the police are armed, that the UK is a police state???
Do you live in fear of the police knocking on your door at three in the morning because you`ve just criticised the police/state/government?

YES. Remember it's the thin end of the wedge.
 

Karma

War Hero
Rocket_Ron said:
Do you live in fear of the police knocking on your door at three in the morning because you`ve just criticised the police/state/government?

Considering the direction the government is taking at the moment, ushered along by the sesationalist media, towards taking punitive action agasint people because they have the potential to commit an offense then I think there is an increasing risk of reaching that situation in the medium term.

However I don't think the answer is de-restricting ownership of small arms to the extent it is in the US. I don't believe that handguns should have been banned after Dunblane and I'd liberalise the market for sport shooting again. I don't see a requirement for small arms as an insurance policy.
 

Karma

War Hero
Rincewind said:
1) every time some nutter kills masses of people in the UK with firearms the government tightens up already restrictive gun laws for us law abiding firearms owners.

Probably an inevitable part of representative democracy, must be seen to do something, anything and given the scale of the sport at the time of both major incidents it was an easy target, so to speak.

2) if more people owned legal firearms there would be less crime commited for fear of consequences.

I'd disagree with that, for a couple of reasons.

The first would be that you just end up in an arms race, by the time everyone has a legal firearm then those who use them now for criminal purposes would have moved on to something else.

Realistically how effective is a Mac10 as a self defence weapon?

Secondly is the criminal psychology element, the whole prison isn't all that effective argument. From what I've read about studies into offending rates, many offenders think that it won't happen to me. There is an overoptimistic approach to risk which de-emphasises the risks of detection. Whilst there is nothing in the UK which directly assesses this with respect to a small arms threat there are some corellation studies which compare with the US and consider it a likely consequence.


Close borders, get more customs officers policing the points of entry to the UK and we might be able to control the flow of illegal firearms and drugs coming into the UK

Close borders, restrict the flow of foodstuffs into the UK, rapidly increase the cost of food. Isolate the UK from the rest of the global economy and watch us turn into an isolated backwater in pretty short order.

Not the most strategic decision in the world.
 
Many years ago after a number of shootings at Service personnel here in Germany I decided to carry my Walther PPK, not the most effective firearm but a lot better than nothing and Paddy doesn't normally reckon on return fire, which when it occurs usually means that Paddy leaves the scene PDFQ. Abdul is of course a different matter. Yes I do feel safer with a gun, it would be nice not to need one but terrorists and violent criminals aren't that co-operative.
 

Rincewind

Lantern Swinger
Crabman said:
Many years ago after a number of shootings at Service personnel here in Germany I decided to carry my Walther PPK, not the most effective firearm but a lot better than nothing and Paddy doesn't normally reckon on return fire, which when it occurs usually means that Paddy leaves the scene PDFQ. Abdul is of course a different matter. Yes I do feel safer with a gun, it would be nice not to need one but terrorists and violent criminals aren't that co-operative.

Well said that man!

i wasnt saying we should all wear firearms all the time and have a real shootem up at closing time. (i'd win anyway).

R
 

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