Women may serve on submarines

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by plymwebed, Nov 6, 2008.

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  1. Women could be allowed to serve on submarines for the first time to address falling crew numbers.

  2. About time

    Women (God bless em) have been serving on RAN submarines for years now.
  3. Much as I like women and think they are highly capable, this idea will never work.

    Never mind the disruption caused by underwater 'romance' my objection is based on personal experience.
    Took my wife down on an S boat alongside, she was aghast. Thought it was horrible. After an hour or so she felt dirty and felt the need to go for a shower.
    I have seen groups of WRNs come down. At first they are all full of resentment about how they have been excluded from boats. After looking around down the AMS and lower level most say 'thanks, but you can keep it'

    If they are drafted into the submarine service in the same way as the lads, the same thing will happen - loads will put their notice in on first contact with the sleek black messengers of death.
  4. Imagine all the fanny farts when they clear their ears :pukel:

    geoff(ers) :nemo:
  5. Just like,

    Females cannot serve on ships, they are now (We were short of personel, like you are now)

    You cannot join the forces if you are gay, you can now

    Females cannot go on subs, stand by.
  6. So now they've gotta kit out all the subs with separate accommodation for the women, or do they just hotbed with the men?
  7. A Durban woman has overcome claustrophobia to become the first KwaZulu-Natal woman to join the crew of a submarine.

    Jennean Francis, 20, of Phoenix, started her navy career by enrolling in the navy's military skills programme, an initiative aimed at recruiting people between the ages of 18 and 21.

    "I showed interest when the navy came to my school to talk about taking a career in the navy," she said in Durban this week, where the SAS Charlotte Maxeke was moored after taking part in naval exercises last week.

    Francis said the months of training at the SAS Saldanha training centre near Cape Town were intense and vigorous.
  8. Agree, unles they can solve the overall recruiting and retention problems it is inevitable. It will be either accept women or give up having boats completely and I suspect they will never accept that.
  9. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Some false equivalence I think between Oz & other diesel boats on the one hand and RN SSN/SSBN with their (I suspect) rather longer times spent continuously submerged, and alleged risks to foetuses (?Foeti?) from, if not radiation, the ambient atmosphere & CO/CO2 etc levels.
  10. I may be missing the point here but I can't see how allowing women to serve in Subs will address failing recruiting numbers. It hasn't worked for the surface fleet or any other aspect of the RN and I suspect, especially given the comments above, that it would likely have the opposite effect particularly if it is mandated for them. Christ - there are enough blokes who don't want to serve on boats.

  11. Silver, it may not completely solve the problem of manning, but it will provide a few more crewmembers for the new bombers at least. The manning situation on surface ships has improved since women were introduced, think of how stretched the RN would be if there were no women currently serving at sea.
    The fact is that most british kids have no idea about the RN and the scope of careers one can have in it unless they are from a rn/military family, and the RN is always overshadowed by the army in current press coverage.
    In my experience, state school teachers tend to view the armed forces as being exclusively for thick kids, (obviously not the case, I know), therefore there are a lot of potential recruits who dont end up joining because of this misconception about HM armed forces.
    (This is just my two cents).
  12. There are ways of preventing the presence of a foetus, so in reality it is still a red herring.
  13. "Good God" we will have them in the Fleet Air Arm next!!!!!!!!!!!
  14. Whats the problem? We have 4-boats crewed by women already - Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance!
  15. Noted my friend and a reasonably good two cents it is. Life in the Service has been all about change for quite a number of years now and whilst much of it has been resisted by many of us die-hards, it hasn't always turned out to be nearly as bad as we thought.

    I'm not a Submariner so I'm wouldn't presume to support a change which would not affect me. That said - on the subject of improved manning & recruiting I believe that most women would probably hate it. It genuinely takes a particularly kind of person to be a part of that service and given the lack of amenities and personal space it is unlikely they would be happy about it.

    It is entirely possible therefore that if it were to be introduced and then mandated it might well have the opposite effect by reducing the numbers of females joining or staying in.

  16. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    The problem with recruiting submariners in sufficient numbers, is quite simply solved.

    It is a complete red herring to suggest that introducing females will solve the problem, likewise it is nonsense to suggest it isn't practical for females to serve on modern boats.

    They have tried throwing money at the problem with limited success, the answer is simply to make the terms and conditions of service more attractive and to stop relying on the voluntary and professional goodwill of those that serve in them.

    In short make the rewards the envy of others & if others complain, then they know the answer.
  17. I'm pretty sure the Astutes are already fitted out in such a way that they could take women now.

    What they need to work on as previous mentioned is the atmosphere and the unborn child. Much cheaper I'm told to look at now that smoking has been banned!

    Mr GS says that there are no women working on bomber types subs anywhere in the world and to date no woman (that he knows about in The Royal Navy) has been under for the length of time that the bombers are under. The Australian's and Canadian's have women on board but those boats surface during the patrols. Bombers obviously don't and so the effects of the atmosphere on an unborn child isn't known (how the hell do you do the tests for that one?)

    The PC brigade would not allow pregnancy tests to be done before patrol, you can't force a woman to take contraception and with all the best will in the world, just as sometimes happens on skimmers, people may get involved and she may fall pregnant.

    Very tricky but I'm sure that as soon as they've worked out the possible effects and if they are not negative, women will be allowed on bombers..... into the mess that has already been built for them! I know two female engineers who would give their eye teeth to serve in boats but they know it's probably not going to happen whilst they're still serving
  18. GS, if they are talking about it openly in the press it will be done within the next three or four years at most, and Im certain the new bombers will be coed, if they are not, then quite simply, there will not be enough guys to crew them and the MOD should cut its losses now.
    Unless the two female engineers you know are incredibly near the end of their service careers, I would venture to suggest that they will be able to serve on bombers.
    Also, the nuclear reactor thing is bull. U.S. aircraft carriers are nuclear powered, their female sailors dont have a higher proportion of kids with birth deformities.
  19. I don't know anything about nuclear reactors and effects they may have on unborn children although I suspect that they would have little to no effect at all, Mr GS reckons that pilots are exposed to more radiation than he is.

    Both engineers want familes of their own but the chance came in the next 5 years, they'd leap at it. Both are married to serving personnel, one to a submariner so she's under no illusion about the life but it would be an amazing opportunity and not one to miss.
  20. I agree gs, I think that all the new bomber subs are scheduled to be in service by 2014, I know that there has been a survey of female sailors done to see how many would be willing to serve on the submarines.

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