WO2 Tiffs - How Successful?

London

Badgeman
We've had WO2 Tiffs for over 2 years now. Should the WO2 rank now be extended to other Branches or should we revert to the old Charge Chief system?
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
Probably not a good idea since one of the main reasons for introducing it was to differentiate between a CCPO-tiff and a CPO non-tiff. Such a move would probably lead to yet more unhappiness amongst our technically minded friends.

Then there is the question of additional pay; it has been argued that if the WO2 rank was to be introduced for non-tiffs then (over time) the vast majority of WO1 ranks would slip down to WO2 level, making it almost impossible to reach the top of the tree.

SF
 
D

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Guest
SILVER_FOX said:
Probably not a good idea since one of the main reasons for introducing it was to differentiate between a CCPO-tiff and a CPO non-tiff. Such a move would probably lead to yet more unhappiness amongst our technically minded friends.

Then there is the question of additional pay; it has been argued that if the WO2 rank was to be introduced for non-tiffs then (over time) the vast majority of WO1 ranks would slip down to WO2 level, making it almost impossible to reach the top of the tree.

SF

It's like that now. Many ex-WO1 jobs are now perculating down to WO2 level freeing the smaller number of WO1s to do the EWO job or FOST.

The introduction of WO2 for non-tech engineering ratings is a good idea. It should be said, however, that if parity of pay was to be reached, the non-tech should do a top-up academic and technical course at one of the engineering schools or show APL credits. I know the subject of some engineering disciplines (particularly ME, when consideration into watchkeeping and POS is taken into account is concerned) but technically they should be identical if parity is to be achieved. ET will iron out creases, anyway in good time.

Levers
 
WO2 should be across the board. At present it means that WE, AE, ME and CT all have to be selected twice to gain WO1 status. Twice filtered = twice as hard to reach the top. Further more "tiffs" are all capped at pay band 7 as pay band 8 and 9 is for the WO2, where as a bean counter or shiney a**e writer just fulfil their competencies and move up to 8 and 9 by annual increment.
The argument that the WO1 billets will dilute and become WO2 is valid. That is because the WO1 will be seen as 'top of the tree'
Of course the none teccies do not want WO1. Most of them would not cut the mustard in a two tier selection process and thus not achieve WO1 where as at present they know that if they hang around long enough they will 'grind it out' of the Navy.
Not with standing that there are some top blokes in the none Tiff fraternity.

Example 1.
Chief tiff on ship gets selected becomes WO2 - is chuffed
Chief Stwd on same ship gets selected. Does not pass go, collects £200 and goes straight to WO1.

Our now WO2 tiff has now to compete against a once filtered field to achieve the same hieghts as our B13 friend

EG 2
Two chiefs on level . One a tiff one a B13. Next year B13 is level 8 just for keeping nise clean and fulfilling his competancies (doing his job in old money) Tiff stays on level 7.

I am happy to explore any other side of the argument thrown up here but the fact remains

For the sake of equality and parity WO2 MUSTbe introduced across the board, so that there is a level playing field.
 

brigham600

War Hero
Pretty sure that 2SL had the idea that the WO2 rank would eventually be introduced fully across the board. Also, WO1 billets would then only be the D1 jobs, such as Fleet, FOST etc and other WO1 current jobs (D2) would be devolved to the WO2.

Just what I heard whilst a few months back.
 
brigham600 said:
Pretty sure that 2SL had the idea that the WO2 rank would eventually be introduced fully across the board. Also, WO1 billets would then only be the D1 jobs, such as Fleet, FOST etc and other WO1 current jobs (D2) would be devolved to the WO2.

Just what I heard whilst a few months back.

As it should be
 

sparkerbuntingnowcis

Lantern Swinger
fishmiester said:
WO2 should be across the board. At present it means that WE, AE, ME and CT all have to be selected twice to gain WO1 status. Twice filtered = twice as hard to reach the top. Further more "tiffs" are all capped at pay band 7 as pay band 8 and 9 is for the WO2, where as a bean counter or shiney a**e writer just fulfil their competencies and move up to 8 and 9 by annual increment.
The argument that the WO1 billets will dilute and become WO2 is valid. That is because the WO1 will be seen as 'top of the tree'
Of course the none teccies do not want WO1. Most of them would not cut the mustard in a two tier selection process and thus not achieve WO1 where as at present they know that if they hang around long enough they will 'grind it out' of the Navy.
Not with standing that there are some top blokes in the none Tiff fraternity.

Example 1.
Chief tiff on ship gets selected becomes WO2 - is chuffed
Chief Stwd on same ship gets selected. Does not pass go, collects £200 and goes straight to WO1.

Our now WO2 tiff has now to compete against a once filtered field to achieve the same hieghts as our B13 friend

EG 2
Two chiefs on level . One a tiff one a B13. Next year B13 is level 8 just for keeping nise clean and fulfilling his competancies (doing his job in old money) Tiff stays on level 7.

I am happy to explore any other side of the argument thrown up here but the fact remains

For the sake of equality and parity WO2 MUSTbe introduced across the board, so that there is a level playing field.




But looking how long it takes for a B13 to get to Chief, reallistically how many will get to level 8/9?
 
Good point. Most of them hit WO1 way before then.
We have a CPO EW on our ship who was an OM in 1996. I reckon he has a more than fair chance of hitting 8.9 (assuming he is not selected by then).

I appreciate that is 1 example in god knows how many, but to make a sweeping statement about "realistic figures" is as bad as me saying most will make it. The bottom line is that some have already, some can and manty more will and that therfore is the foundation to most of my last post
 

sparkerbuntingnowcis

Lantern Swinger
fishmiester said:
Good point. Most of them hit WO1 way before then.
We have a CPO EW on our ship who was an OM in 1996. I reckon he has a more than fair chance of hitting 8.9 (assuming he is not selected by then).

I appreciate that is 1 example in god knows how many, but to make a sweeping statement about "realistic figures" is as bad as me saying most will make it. The bottom line is that some have already, some can and manty more will and that therfore is the foundation to most of my last post


As you seem to be a death star rating you will be used to the warfare deparment having Chiefs, with the exception of the 22's the only warfare chiefs in the rest of the fleet will be the Chops R's, all the other sub-departments are run by PO's.

Therefore it will be a very rare occation you will have a level 8/9 chief, as if they have been selected for chief that early they will be earmarked for promotion already, standing by to be shot down with a ton of replies to the contary.
 
sparkerbuntingnowcis said:
Therefore it will be a very rare occation you will have a level 8/9 chief,

I still can not see that. They get their buttons, remain a CPO for between 5-6 years hit level 8 - simple. Not all CPO are picked up for WO1 and not all CPO leave within 5-6 years of being rated. It therefore follows that some will in fact make it to level 8 / 9. Do not forget I only cited the CPO EW as an example of an early rated CPO. CHOPS OPS are not the only players in this piste. Do not forget the white collar mafia :?
 

brigham600

War Hero
I agree with fishmeister. I left the mob 2 months ago and I would have been on level 8 very soon had I not left and would have ended my career on level 9 the following year.

Lets face it, pay 2000 was not thought out very well at all and it always makes me laugh that our masters (wardroom) have not switched over to it. I wonder why?!!?

On another note, that CPO(EW) has steamed a bit. ;-)
 

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