Will having engineering quals prior to joining, fast-track my career in the RN?

Discussion in 'Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting' started by Dannybongo19, Jun 14, 2015.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Hi all,

    This is my first post so bear with me.

    So i am currently serving a 4 yr apprenticeship in mechanical engineering ( as a fitter). I have a:

    BTEC LVL 3 in Operations and maintenance
    NVQ LVL 3 extended diploma in manufacturing engineering
    and will soon have a HNC in mechanical engineering

    Taking these quals into account, plus experience, would this assist in fast-tracking me for further opportunities, promotions etc... within in the RN? I understand everyone, regardless of background will do the same training, but i'd like to think it might give me an advantage in terms of opportunities. You need a degree to become an officer, but with my quals, i'd be halfway there academically speaking.

    any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. Unless things have changed in the last 7 years, in a nutshell, no. We actually had one PO on MEACC (marine engineering artificers candidate course) with us who was studying for exactly the same qualification he had gained outside before joining up, strange but true.
     
  3. Cheers Barney for your support. The problem is is that i'm currently one year into my HNC. I'm really eager to get joined up to for the RN as soon as possible, the only commitment i have is my HNC, however if its not going to benefit me, then part of me thinks why bother? I can stick it out for another year, get the HNC and then join or join up straight away. I have my RT test next week so i've gotten the ball rolling on joining already.
     
  4. To be fair, joining up is not instant, possibly a year or more from acceptance, I would stick at your HNC until the RN gives you a date, it will obviously help you academically to get the HNC, making any training in the mob a lot easier for you, giving more time for runs ashore and chasing skirt ;-)
     
  5. Hi Danny,

    I'm joining as a ETME and also had the same concern as I have relevant qualifications. When you go to selection (PRNC) you have your specification briefing, we had two engineers explaining to us the new fast track program which is something you can apply for when you get to Phase 2, obviously you do the exact same training it does make the process a little faster on the promotion time line it seems. I tried to do a bit more research on this as it can prove difficult getting some of that information, have a look at the below link:

    http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/~/media/royal navy responsive/documents/reference library/br 3/Br3book/ch74.pdf

    That might give you a little more info!

    They did emphasise the fact that although it is good to think a little in advance you should first enjoy being an AB as it goes without saying when you get promotions in tends to come with more responsibility.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Good point Barney, i might well have the qual by the time i join anyway, i'll stick with the HNC and just follow the recruitment process for now, see where I get with it. I'm not totally familiar with runs ashore, but if it means chasing skirt then i'm not complaining ;)

    Cheers.IlikeB33r, i'll be sure to mention this when i'm in next week for my tests. The info as certainly helped out so thank-you :) Good look with your process as well!
     
  7. Run ashore, Jack having a few beers
     
  8. While not giving you advanced promotion you will find that you will be covering some the same subjects as you are already qualified in.
    Take advantage of this and go for the highest exam scores possible.
    I don't know if it is still the case but high flyers frequently gained their promotion much morequickly than others
     
  9. In a word no, there is no benefit to joining the RN as a qualified engineer. Strange but true, as others have said you will be covering the same subjects you studied at college. I had an ETWE join my section with a BSc in Networking, did he get advancement? No and won't unless he is selected for Fast-Track.

    I think the Navy is looking at directly recruiting PO's in the near future to plug the gap in manning, and you're exactly what they will be looking for. I would ask to speak to the ME branch manager when you speak to the AFCO as they might want to hear from you.
     
  10. Cheers Slim and digger. I will take what you guys have said with me for next week at my RT and ask the questions then.
     
  11. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Just a swift heads-up on the issue of prior civilian technical qualifications/experience - there is indeed a fast-track advancement scheme after you have "marinised" and consolidated your existing acquired engineering knowledge in a nautical environment.

    You'll often hear those more cynical than myself (moi, cynical?) refer to the "Re-invention of the Artificer" and the next marvelous invention on the drawing board is the (re) introduction of the Direct Entry erm... "Not-Artificer" with accelerated (instantaneous?) advancement to Senior Rate.

    This will apply to those civilian skilled tradesmen & women who fall between the cracks of being inadequately academically qualified for Engineering Officer entry but are perhaps better qualified/accredited/experienced in the academic aspects of technical engineering than some of the people conducting phase two branch training.

    Obviously we've not tried that one before. No sir-ee. Not us. Never. :)
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. DEA's, wot's them then?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. No IDEA
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Cheers Ninja_Stoker, this is something i'll mention when i'm next into the careers office. Also, why have the RN changed the artificer role? I kind of get the impression that the role of artificer has now been re-branded and dumbed down a little? Also one thing i wouldn't want to do, is to be quickly advanced without learning the trade properly and the having the respect of the people i'd be in charge of. I get the impression that your not keen on the concept of "Direct Entry advancement?
     
  15. Dannybongo, you are about to open a whole can of worms reference the emotive subject of the demise of the Artificer. It is a many faceted subject but suffice to say the RN does not have enough engineers to meet the operational requirement. When pay 2000 was introduced, followed by the introduction of the ET, many of us said it was the beginning of the end for engineering in the RN. It is with regret we can now say "I told you so"

    Whilst the rest of the world is bigging up apprentiships the RN are trying to do it on the cheap. The artificer is still very much alive in the Army and is a coveted title and skill set, just as it was in the RN. There is a gap that the RN has decided not to take advantage of any more, those people that may not have the ability to undertake a degree but have capabilities above what is required of an ET - these people no longer feature in the RN plan, they were the core of the Artificer cadre. Also, the Artificers made up a significant percentage of the Engineering Officer branch - now also a shortage area.

    All of the above was supplemented by the Direct Entry Artificer, they entered HMS Fisgard for a term in Harcus Division, then went to do a short period at the lead schools before going on the front line as Acting Petty Officers. they often brought much valued civilian skills to the party despite much ribbing from the traditional route Artificers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    To be perfectly honest, I'm not in a position to judge, but the best mechanical engineers in civilian life do not necessarily always make the best supervisors in the military role if they have no military management experience.

    The difference with the Armed Forces is everyone has ancillary jobs besides just being a "technocrat", mon-fri, 6-days per week. It's a bit like the fact that not every engineering graduate is automatically going to become a first class officer.

    The DEAs I served with were top blokes - crap managers, superb engineers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. sootblower Hmm yes it seems i've touched on a interesting topic. It's very frustrating to hear this to be honest, part the reason I want to join the navy is to get some proper engineering skills, which are hard to come by these days. Part the reason I've chosen engineering for a career is become of the skill and professionalism that comes with, it seems a shame to join the RN, living the former glory of proper engineers/artificers that the RN use to have. Still my mind is set on the RN regardless of this, I still feel like a good career is to be had there.
     
  18. Dannybongs, please don't be put off. I did 34 years as an Artificer, (ME) leaving last year. I do not regret a moment of my time. I had fun, worked hard and above all received first class training which has set me up for a second career.

    Bear in mind that with the current manpower shortages, if you work hard and put the effort in promotion will come, probably quicker that in the last few years. In a smaller pond it is easier to stand out as one of the "good guys". And there may the added bonus of retention initiatives.

    I expect some of the people on this site will remember the shortage of EL Artificers in the 1980s - this gave many of us the ability to move quickly to Chief and subsequently on to Charge Chief and Warrant Officer.

    I am sure the current shortages will have some bearing on where engineers stand in the New Employment Model pay scales. If engineers aren't on the top level then the RN should brace itself for more engineers leaving.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. My mind is still set on joining to be honest, whilst it is a shame to see a decline in various areas of the RN, they obviously need engineers as there seems to be enough marketing and advertisement put into recruitment recently. I'm confident there is a great career to be had. Cheers sootblower for your insight, its be very useful.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Funny old thing, I spoke to a Yank back in the 90’s as we were steam rolling into user maintainers, all he said was they had tried it and it did not work, they had gone full circle and were rebuilding screwed up engineering branches. It’s about time our planners learnt just because the Yanks got it wrong does not mean we can do any better, they should have realised by now there are 2 branches in the Navy, Engineering and others, the others cannot function without the engineering branches.
    NS is correct the last time they screwed up and bridged the gap with Civy engineers they got some good skills but some were not very good with the navy way of life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page