Where to now for Turkey and the EU?

[Deleted 7]

Cyprus, many people what to see both sides unified in some sort of way, get the island back to one but the president has a change of heart!

THE TWO sides ended up trading barbs yesterday following a week of developments that have thrown Turkey’s EU accession off course and cast a shadow over any new Cyprus talks.

Trouble began with the Foreign Ministers meeting in Luxembourg last weekend when Cyprus blocked the closing of Turkey’s chapter on research and development citing, Ankara’s obligation to open its ports and airports to Greek Cypriot traffic.

A compromise saw the EU Ministers urge Turkey to fulfil its EU obligations, which satisfied the Cyprus government.

full story

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Well it is understandable given the Greek Cypriots bad faith after EU accession. Promises made and upon accession, immediately broken. We have been seeing the same tendency to ignore EU obligations by Romania, Latvia & Poland: does the EU Council of Ministers act? Of course not. They make meaningless noises but do nothing to enforce EU law or Treaty obligations. So with this in mind, why precisely should Turkey allow the Greek Cypriots access to its ports when the EU preaches fairness and the rule of law, then turns a blind eye to transgressions that themselves establish a de facto precident?

Like much else in the EU, which in the past I have strongly supported, I have grown increasingly disillusioned. If you have rules enforce them. If not, abandon the pretence of a legally binding Treaty and with it, logically, the notion of a European Union. The EU only enforces the rules against or in favour of some nations to the detriment of others. This is not Union. This is bullying. For me the three tests of the EU's mettle were whether it would impose sanctions upon France & Germany for monetary indiscipline - it didn't; whether it would impose sanctions upon the Greek Cypriots for reneging on their agreement with the EU with regard to the Turkish Cypriots - no action was taken beyond condemnation; and finally Christian human rights abuses in Poland: the rise of virulent anti-Semitism & the public advocating of clubbing gays by leading Catholic politicians. Again, the Council of Ministers remains quiescent. Again the rule of law is undermined. Again the legitimacy of the EU itself is called into question.

Turkey would be well advised to walk away and abandon any attempt to join what, from the rhetoric of too many EU member states' politicians, appears to constitute an axis of hatred against those who do not fit the model notion of a Christian nation. Inaction over Catholic Poland's abysmal human rights record is merely a symptom of this wider EU malaise. Turkey would be better off forging a Pan Islamic Alliance, and modifying her constitution to acknowledge Islam as Turkey's normative religion, in law.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Greenie]

The EU is one big fit up----more back handers-rip offs and fraud happening its unbelievable.

They still haven't ever acheived an audit yet of the monies recieved and paid out yet--its so tangled an unacountable .

As for EU laws and rules----- yes its wonderful--only the UK abides by them !! The others do as they please!! The Fishing in the UK is a prime example!

 

[Nutty]

Jenny

I agree fully with UN Secretary-general Kofi Annan. The problem started with the EU allowing only the Greek part of Cyprus to join the EU rejecting the Turkish part on a referendum held where only Greek Cypriots got to have a meaningfull vote and guess what they REJECTED the Turkish North being allowed to join but in stead made various promises all of which have been broken. Cyprus should never have been allowed to join as a divided Island, and should now be thrown out.

I am not certain that Turkey is ready to join a group of mainly Western Liberal States but as Nozzy said some of our newer members have failed to take the word Liberal on board and break EU regulation.

I have two further points, the article is from a Greek Cypriot news paper so hardly unbiased. Also how many British Servicemen, Civilians of all sexes and ages were killed by Turkish Cypriots. If fact how many Turks were members of EOKA.

Nutty

 

[Deleted 7]

For Turkey to join the EU, the biggest ruling would be them to give their part of the island back to Cyprus.

The N.side is actually ilegally populated and is a pain in the back side. For example, the borders were suppose to be opened up, free for all but the turk side argued this and refused to actually act to it, this was part of the EU law and they did not abide.

The EU has been a good change from Cyprus,alot of things are better off with the EU being here. Businesses can come into the island, giving the people a wider range of a job perspective. Alot of things have become more affordable and the medical care etc is alot better down to the new ruling.

If the EU left Cyprus, it would cause more harm than good. The Greek Cypriot side actually voted Turkey into the EU, however I think this is 1974 pride getting in the way of the presidental votes :roll:

I believe Turkey should not be allowed into the EU, however alot of non-terrorist business comes from there, tourism is high from the rest of the world esp Europe, it would be stabbing yourself in the foot not to allow them in. I still think they should be pushed aside though, bringing them into the EU may cause more harm than good

 

[Maxi_77]

I fear there are many extreme nationalist Greeks in both Cyprus and Greece who see the possible entry of Turkey into the EU as another opportunity to ethnically cleanse Norther Cyprus of Turks, something in their view should have happened in the 1920s but for the UK occupation of the island. Many people forget that in 1920 Greece embarked on a war of agression against Turkey in an attempt to re-establish the Byzantine Empire, and that the invasion by Turkey of Northern Cyprus was to stop an attenpt to both untite Cyprus with Greece and to evict the Turks. The present situation only serves to illustrate the skill and power these factions have.

Peter

 

[Nutty]

For Turkey to join the EU, the biggest ruling would be them to give their part of the island back to Cyprus.

The N.side is actually ilegally populated and is a pain in the back side. For example, the borders were suppose to be opened up, free for all but the turk side argued this and refused to actually act to it, this was part of the EU law and they did not abide.

Jenny

The Turks would also argue that Greece give back the Southern part of Cyprus to the whole of the population of Cyprus as is stood prior to 1974. Not the Turk Cypriots give it to the Greek Cypriots or in fact Greece.

Why would you expect the population of the North to obey EU laws when you will not let them join the EU. A matter the South voted against, allowing the North entry at the same time as the South took membership which even you say has been to the advantage of the population.

Nutty

 

[Deleted 7]

Ah but the Greek-Cypriot part of Cyprus voted that Turkey should join the EU. Watched this debate on TV, this is how I pick up the language quickly lol

Basically, on the N.side are the homes/houses of the Greek-Cyp's that were raided and taken by the Turks when they invaded in 1974. These homes by law are still held by the families who abandoned them, however there are Turks living in these homes scot free. The governemtn has come to a settlement that when eventually the border is removed these families will receive money for the value of their homes before the raid. This is not fair!

You see, not many people realise the conflict standing in Cyprus and that it still holds a vast effect on the country and why Turkey has not gone EU. Don't get me wrong, I hear the Cypriot story, the turk story and the English one and they seem all to be different, no one is willing to claim they were wrong etc

To be honest, Cyprus is only halfway into the EU and it could be another good couple of years until the EU has taken full effect into this country.. Either way 1974 is still a fresh wound for this country. I think the settlement should have been comprimised before Cyprus entered the EU.

How ever, could this have been a sneaky move for Cyprus? NOw she has most of Europe behind her back if Turkey decide to hold a bigger fight :wink:

 

[Nutty]

Ah but the Greek-Cypriot part of Cyprus voted that Turkey should join the EU. Watched this debate on TV, this is how I pick up the language quickly lol

Basically, on the N.side are the homes/houses of the Greek-Cyp's that were raided and taken by the Turks when they invaded in 1974. These homes by law are still held by the families who abandoned them, however there are Turks living in these homes scot free. The governemtn has come to a settlement that when eventually the border is removed these families will receive money for the value of their homes before the raid. This is not fair!

You see, not many people realise the conflict standing in Cyprus and that it still holds a vast effect on the country and why Turkey has not gone EU. Don't get me wrong, I hear the Cypriot story, the turk story and the English one and they seem all to be different, no one is willing to claim they were wrong etc

To be honest, Cyprus is only halfway into the EU and it could be another good couple of years until the EU has taken full effect into this country.. Either way 1974 is still a fresh wound for this country. I think the settlement should have been comprimised before Cyprus entered the EU.

How ever, could this have been a sneaky move for Cyprus? NOw she has most of Europe behind her back if Turkey decide to hold a bigger fight :wink:

J-D

This extract rather shows where you sympathy lies in this argument now there are three sides Turks, English (not British I notice) and Cypriot (Greek only I assume)

"Cypriot story, the turk story and the English one"

Now for you other quote. Not in this little corner of Europe she does'nt

"NOw she has most of Europe behind her back if Turkey decide to hold a bigger fight"

Nutty

PS Like Gwen, living in the country you have become a victim of the Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Much of the initial conflict including the 1974 invasion might have been avoided had the Greek government & Greek Cypriots not denied the Turkish Cypriots their rights. Too often they were treated in a manner not entirely dissimilar to the way Catholics were treated by the Protestants in Ulster in the 1950 & 1960s. At the time I was sympathetic to the Turkish invasion as I could see [yes I'm that old] the reasons why it had arisen - the way the Turks were treated on the island was a disgrace. I suspect that were Greece a Muslim country and Turkey a Christian country, the EU would have consistently taken a pro-Turkish position, but maybe I am just being cynical?

 

[Maxi_77]

Much of the initial conflict including the 1974 invasion might have been avoided had the Greek government & Greek Cypriots not denied the Turkish Cypriots their rights. Too often they were treated in a manner not entirely dissimilar to the way Catholics were treated by the Protestants in Ulster in the 1950 & 1960s. At the time I was sympathetic to the Turkish invasion as I could see [yes I'm that old] the reasons why it had arisen - the way the Turks were treated on the island was a disgrace. I suspect that were Greece a Muslim country and Turkey a Christian country, the EU would have consistently taken a pro-Turkish position, but maybe I am just being cynical?

It would also have helped if many Greeks had not believed that as the natural heirs to the Eastern Roman Empire that in reality the whole of Turkey should belong to them. The 74 invasion was prompted by an attempt to unite Cyprus with Greece, an act which was planned to take place only days later than the invasion. It might be reasonable to suspect that if that had happened the Turks in Cyprus would have been invited to leave rather quickly. It is worth noting that whilst the Turkish Empire was most clearly Muslim and carved out of the old Roman Empire by force that for most of it's existance non Muslims were well treated and allowed to worship in freeedom, I have personally visited several grand ex Orthodox churches in Turkey.

Peter

 

[Deleted 7]

Nutty I am not under any type of syndrome and I chose no side as this is not my war.

How ever, living over here and seeing with my own eyes the conflicxt, it lays down a path that you can not avoid. I have Cypriot, Greek-cyp and Turk-cyp friends and they are annoyed as the next about this conflict. It was about the people, the freedom and now about which gov has the ruling aka teddies throwing. It is a long standing battle that unfortunately Cyprus has fallen in the middle of. Greece Vs Turkey, until they sort their differences out, Cyprus will remain an unspoken victim.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Nutty I am not under any type of syndrome and I chose no side as this is not my war.

How ever, living over here and seeing with my own eyes the conflicxt, it lays down a path that you can not avoid. I have Cypriot, Greek-cyp and Turk-cyp friends and they are annoyed as the next about this conflict. It was about the people, the freedom and now about which gov has the ruling aka teddies throwing. It is a long standing battle that unfortunately Cyprus has fallen in the middle of. Greece Vs Turkey, until they sort their differences out, Cyprus will remain an unspoken victim.

It is difficult to see the Greeks and Turks settling their historic emnity Jenny, in the way the French and Germans have been able to following WW2. The political and social preconditions for such an enterprise to stand any chance of sucess, sadly, do simply not exist at present.

 

[andym]

Let the one that makes the best Donner Kebabs in and be done with it!!!!