Where faith can kill

Discussion in 'The Gash Barge' started by thingy, Aug 2, 2009.

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  1. A father let his 11 year old daughter die a painful death from treatable diabetes, by placing his beliefs above his daughter's welfare. In the US he's been convicted of homicide. Should faith trump a child's right to life?


    Should God be prosecuted for writing a best seller that encourages it's more gullible readers to take things too far, or does the author have no moral responsibility for the foreseeable consequences of his rich imagination? Note: Marx has been blamed for promoting genocide, so why not God?

    Please discuss sensibly....... ;)
  2. "A lawyer representing Dale Neumann said he would appeal"

    So the ar*eole won't trust his freedom to his faith, gets a lawyer to help...didn't get a doctor for his child.

    If they need someone to kick this cnut to death..stick my name down!

    Although if we extend the idea to it's logical conclussion, ie. society is obliged to give medical aid to it's sick people, then what happens when the NHS won't fund some life saving treatments due to cost, yet governments give umptityfuck millions of pounds to the banks.
  3. How can that be discussed sensibly?
  4. N
    Nail and Head seem to come to mind. I don't think religion should enter into the moral ethics when it comes to care for a minor. They are not capable of deciding what is the best option for themselves. Did this family even seek any medical care, or did they even discuss the situation with their church leaders
  5. I've not followed the link but will assume its a JW.

    I think they should be allowed to carry on as they are so that there are less of em in the gene pool.
  6. As a father of 4 and grand father to be i would like to smash this ferkpigs balls into mince meat and serve it up to the rest of the ferkin knumbnuts who are similar to him, :twisted:
  7. Excellent concept..like Darwinism....Now I can watch some ar*ole sitting in their car smoking away with a tribe of kids in the back, and instead of wanting to go and punch sense into them, I can merely content myself in the knowledge that the offspring from this tw*t might not grow old enough to be able to perpetuate the genetic stupidity.

    Maybe all the fatties on benefit should be paid in McDonalds vouchers and ciggies. I think I might slap in for a job change to "Health MInister".
  8. Hmmm, most wars have been caused by "Faith" so no new news there I'm afraid.

    IIRC, the courts can make a child a ward of court if parents object to life saving treatment being given to their offspring. However, this only works when the medical profession are aware of the child in the first place.
  9. As this is the Gash Barge, I'm sure that somebody will be along shortly in order to inform us that they should be chained up in a cellar and have their arrses [email protected] etc etc and that's a shame because in a way this subject is one worthy of some proper discussion (IMO of course). With that in mind, I'll have a go ...

    Faith is generally a good thing. We all need something to believe in. For some it is God, for others it is Money, the Universe or the Narrative, even the Force. I have often posited that if God didn't exist we would have had to have invented Him in order that the collective insecurity of Humanity be bound. Faith provides the knowledge that we are not alone, that somebody, somewhere has the ANSWERS.

    What is really dangerous is the blind adherence to dogma which passes for religion (which I would propose is entirely different from the kind of faith espoused above).

    Religion is a Discourse of Institutional Control which uses the need to believe as a lever to move people to obey the agendas of the ruling Elite. Of course attempts to change this Discourse have led to branches in the narrative which have led to the conflicts between versions of the Discourse which have been the many religious wars both past and present. Protestant and Catholic, Sunni and Shiite; all competing versions.

    For Power and Control are the real driving forces behind Human behaviour and are embedded at the root of all narratives justified as whatever it takes for the survival of the Tribe.

    Now unfortunately some of the more extreme Discourses jar with the secular nature of the Democratic Discourse; that which seeks to use our own desire to self determination to control us (note that this is already in conflict with the Religious Discourse in that the latter posits a globally deterministic position). Thus we have cases like the one cited by the OP in which a strong attachment to Dogma results in the death of a child in direct contravention of the laws which form part of the prevailing secular discourse. (It should be underlined here that this kind of conflict does not occur in non-secular systems, belief will always hold sway there (or should, I'm not sure that's always the case)).

    It is not surprising then that there is conflict and that the more powerful (ie the one into which most people have bought) narrative will prevail.

    But, how does this look to the father of the child whose belief in (Insert Version of God Here) takes precedence over his belief in the Secular authority. Surely he is not without compassion? What if his belief is that his Daughter will not go to Heaven if she were to have treatment, that her very soul would be in peril? - after all it is common in most if not all religions that there is an afterlife for which conditions have to be met as a condition of entry.

    In the above case then, should the girl live after intervention, would she be outcast from family and friends and live her life as a shadow, a zombie bereft of hope eternal? And how do we know we're not wrong?

    Many people have died for their beliefs, some are martyrs, some have Medals, some have died in the knowledge that "It is a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done, it is a far, far better place I go to than I have ever gone", many have died because somebody else thought it would be best for them to pass on (Jonestown anybody?)

    Basically the prosecution is an existential triumph, not a moral one...

    For any of you that are Sci Fi fans there is an episode of Babylon 5 which deals with this subject (Season 1 ep 10, Believers).

    All the above strictly IMO of course

    (edited for poor quality control)
  10. Quantum,do you have children of your own ?
  11. I would say to this and other prats.

    Surely God gave you a brain to use so therefore the brain was used to help and relieve suffering by developing the way forward to cure all diseases..

    I detest the religious festivals that always result in the brutal death of countless animals for a great feast in the name of GOD
  12. Norway Chris:

    Yes, I do, but they are responsible for their own souls :)

    FYI I believe in nothing; and everything ;-)
  13. Quantum, it's a shame the child in question will never grow up to understand self determinism or be able to debate your many arguments. To be honest you've said an awful lot to say a little and sit on the fence.
  14. I agree, and in my own personal narrative, she would. The object of my post was to further the discussion and perhaps make the point that our own viewpoint is not necessarily that of everybody, that they might feel as strongly as we do but in opposition, and that our own viewpoints are guided by the Discourses and Narratives we buy into (or belief systems or whatever).

    I'll try to be more concise in future :)
  15. That makes more sense to me :thumbright:
  16. I have four children and two of them have flown the nest and are doing very very well for themselves,my other two a boy of nine and a little seven month old baby boy are obviously still at home with us,i would give my life in return for my childrens lifes if i had too,i believe any loving father would do this,

    So i just do not understand it when a scrout like this yank can let his own daughter die because he has faith that the big guy up there will step in and rescue her,i have my own thoughts on religion which i will not discuss on RR because i believe that religion is the biggest cause of argument and ferkin conflict this side of the holy greil,our children are our future and this cnut wants ferkin with a pineapple and then some very serious counselling,or just ferkin slotting, 8)
  17. Somewhat ironic Chris (and no I'm not religous in the least, more the opposite) :lol:
  18. I can see the irony WreckerL :D
  19. I believe in the divinity of Trogs. Does that entitle me to persecute Raleigians as a True Believer? :lol:

    I think the father in question should be sterilised by having his balls slowly crushed between a couple of heavy Bibles then any remaining children taken into care of sensible people. Christians are Ok just so long as they are rational and put the child's welfare ahead of their own opinions.

    Praise be to Trogs....... :lol:
  20. Not exactly a good advert for religion, of any shape, size or name, is it ? With 6 kids and 16 grandkids, I'd move heaven and earth to make sure any of them got the medical treatment they needed, with no expense or hassle spared, I just hope that this pair get life, so they can focus on how they let this little one die, and reflect on how and why their God and their beliefs dropped them in it. Should imagine the prison populace will let them know the error of their ways also - quite forcibly.

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