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What is the point of the Wardroom in the RNR?

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
Its a large mess, the problem is that only a relatively small clique of officers tend to occupy the bar. I've been in for nearly 10 years one way or another, and have always seen this as a job, but recently its really been hacking me off.

I'm all for staying in the bar and enjoying myself if I thought it was a decent group of people. The problem is that I've realised that the majority (while perfectly normal people) are not the sort of persons who I want to socialise with on a Tuesday night.

I am surprised at the reaction here -there seems to be some sacred view that we all love each other in the RNR - sorry guys ain't true. I see this as a job, I'll happily admit that I have very few friends in the RNR and that I am probably a relatively unpopular / unknown person as I don't see it as a social thing. Maybe I'm at fault here - I just want to do my operational role without playing the social game on a drill night - why is this so hard for people to understand?
 
slim said:
phil1972 said:
It would be interesting to see who it is that wants change. I would proffer that JRs and JOs want change and SRs and Senior Orificers are quite happy the way it is.

Or am I wrong?

Don't forget Phil that at one time all SRs were JRs and all Senior orficers were junior orficers.
Part of the rewards of advancement /promotion is status. Part of this status is separate messing. Without any rewards why strive for promotion?
There are plenty of opportunities for all drinking together ashore, ask any small ships flight where all rates /ranks frequently mix and enjoy each others company.

There are times when it is good to mix and equally there are times when it is not good, and to be quite blunt the same applies outside the mob too.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
phil1972 said:
sgtpepperband - I would LOVE to flatten some of the t*ssers we get in our mess, I think I will await the the next junior rate mess dinner to oblige your sentiment on the tiller flatplus first aid kit front.

Again in Jim30's defence, not that he needs it, but until the last recruitment evening I had never been in the Wardrobe. So I guess we just habitually stick to our own manor.

'Manor'? This ain't some cheap Guy Ritchie Brit spiv ganster movie... :lol:
 
Jim30 said:
Nice guess, but I've never been in the JR's mess in my life and certainly never hang around there waiting for beer. (Ex URNU not JR you see)

Definitely needs a life or something, one needs to get to know the men you know. Now I may be old navy, and old RNR, itwas MS10 in my day, but I certainly would not be proud of the statement that I had never been in the JRs mess.
 

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
My branch is officer only, I'm not a DO and have little to do with the JR's. Nothing personal and no snobbery, just the way things pan out. Some people here need to lose the class war chips.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Jim30 said:
My branch is officer only, I'm not a DO and have little to do with the JR's. Nothing personal and no snobbery, just the way things pan out. Some people here need to lose the class war chips.

Hey, you started it, panyo! "My branch is Officer only"? What crap; so you only work/socialise with people in your own branch? Last time I checked a Commissioned Officer holds rank and command over all his subordinates, regardless of service or branch. Check QRRNs and get back to me when you've got a smart enough answer.

Get off your high horse, and stand by for some incoming. If you can't take it then think about why you posted this thread in the first place. And if you can't take it, put your notice in reconsider your options. It sounds like you need the RNR more than the RNR needs you.

:mad:
 

Karma

War Hero
Jim30 said:
My branch is officer only.

So what, unless you're acting as a singleton, assuming media ops, you still have to integrate with peers. If you're in five man team, assuming C4ISTAR, then I'd prefer to see some evidence of ability to do that before letting you into an operational environment.

It's not as simplistic as you'd like to imagine, and the fact that you've openly admitted never having been in a JRs mess does tend to suggest a lack of integration with the rest of the RN. I'll admit that most of my experience in a JRs mess was as a result of being a supervising officer, but I'd anticipate most officers being reasonably regular visitors, I used to drop in for standeasy about once a week, checking with the LHOM first of course. A bit different in the SRs messes of course but still fairly regular.

And it may be that you'd benefit from being a DO, wearing the fact that you're not as a seeming badge of pride rather reinforces the negative opinions expressed previously.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Karma said:
Jim30 said:
My branch is officer only.

So what, unless you're acting as a singleton, assuming media ops, you still have to integrate with peers. If you're in five man team, assuming C4ISTAR, then I'd prefer to see some evidence of ability to do that before letting you into an operational environment.

It's not as simplisitc as you'd like to imagine, and the fact that you've openly admitted never having been in a JRs mess does tend to suggest a lack of integration with the rest of the RN. I'll admit that most of my experience in a JRs mess was as a result of being a supervising officer, but I'd anticipate most officers being reasonably regular visitors, I used to drop in for standeasy about once a week, checking with the LHOM first of course. A bit different in the SRs messes of course but still fairly regular.

And it may be that you'd benefit from being a DO, wearing the fact that you're not as a seeming badge of pride rather reinforces the negative opinions expressed previously.

Hehe, you put it so much more eloquently! I wish I cud speek more proper England like wot you duz... :lol:
 

Karma

War Hero
Jim30 said:
Its a large mess, the problem is that only a relatively small clique of officers tend to occupy the bar.

That's pretty inevitable in most wardrooms though, but mess membership is about more than propping up the bar....
 

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
I've done my DO time - I've asked for a new division but we've got younger officers who need the experience more.
I get on perfectly well with the people I deploy with - its the people on a Tuesday who are annoying me. I'd suggest some of the people going "ooh he's a loner so can't have him on an operational team" have never done a deployment. All my CR's have noted my ability to work well in any team, in any situation and I am more than happy to do so.

I love the way that the usual "officers are cnuts" suspects have changed this into an RNA "and another thing about officers" thread. I get on very well with the JR's, but my role in unit, plus my wider role means I have very, very little to do with them. Its not difficult to understand and it doesnt mean I have some kind of "issue", it just means that the navy has changed.The fact that you don't understand that not all officers have valid reasons to enter a JR's mess on a drill night shows how out of touch some people are here. For the record, the best guys I ever had working for me were Lance Jacks.


LET ME REITERATE - THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE VALUE OF THE W/R IN THE RNR - NOT RATINGS OR SR'S AND THEIR VALUE, NOT OPERATIONS OR ANYTHING SIMILAR.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Jim30 said:
I've done my DO time - I've asked for a new division but we've got younger officers who need the experience more.
I get on perfectly well with the people I deploy with - its the people on a Tuesday who are annoying me. I'd suggest some of the people going "ooh he's a loner so can't have him on an operational team" have never done a deployment. All my CR's have noted my ability to work well in any team, in any situation and I am more than happy to do so.

I love the way that the usual "officers are cnuts" suspects have changed this into an RNA "and another thing about officers" thread. I get on very well with the JR's, but my role in unit, plus my wider role means I have very, very little to do with them. Its not difficult to understand and it doesnt mean I have some kind of "issue", it just means that the navy has changed.The fact that you don't understand that not all officers have valid reasons to enter a JR's mess on a drill night shows how out of touch some people are here. For the record, the best guys I ever had working for me were Lance Jacks.


LET ME REITERATE - THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE VALUE OF THE W/R IN THE RNR - NOT RATINGS OR SR'S AND THEIR VALUE, NOT OPERATIONS OR ANYTHING SIMILAR.

As a token of your true commitment how about organising a social/team-building exercise? You seem to feel strongly about this matter, so perhaps you should be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem?

:roll:
 

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
"
As a token of your true commitment how about organising a social/team-building exercise? You seem to feel strongly about this matter, so perhaps you should part of the solution, rather than part of the problem?"

No - I don't have the time and frankly I'm not bothered about it.
 

Karma

War Hero
Jim30 said:
I've done my DO time

So you've been a DO but never been in the mess with your division?

.....we've got younger officers who need the experience more.

That's reasonable, but I'd also expect more experienced officers to end up with mentoring responsibilities? Not really a mess membership issue but this discussion seems to have gone much wider than that.

I get on quite well with the people I deploy with - its the people on a Tuesday who are annoying me.

So is your issue that you have to pay mess fees when you never use the bar? As I said above, mess membership is about more than propping up the bar.

Lose the fecking class war you hate ratings hobbyhorse - its dull.
You seem to be the only person who is seeing this a class issue, and you're being very defensive about it, which strikes me as curious.

I am conscious that some of the discussion has ended up drifting towards the need for a system of messing, rather than the specific issues you have with your parent unit, however there are difficulties in the current system, as I alluded to above. We make up a unit from a range of specialisations, some of which might end up with only a couple of individuals in a unit and integration proving challenging; particularly in the more arcane specialisations which we don't talk too much about.

I'm afraid that's just one of those things. The service comes with baggage.
 

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
"So you've been a DO but never been in the mess with your division?"

Correct - 4 man division, never all in town and not done thing for DO's to enter the mess.

"That's reasonable, but I'd also expect more experienced officers to end up with mentoring responsibilities?"

Exactly what I'm doing at the moment.

"So is your issue that you have to pay mess fees when you never use the bar? As I said above, mess membership is about more than propping up the bar."

Where it started and the answer is yes.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Jim30 said:
"
As a token of your true commitment how about organising a social/team-building exercise? You seem to feel strongly about this matter, so perhaps you should part of the solution, rather than part of the problem?"

No - I don't have the time and frankly I'm not bothered about it.

Well I offered you a simple solution, but you've obviously shown your true commitment to the job. 'Nuff said... :roll:
 

Jim30

Lantern Swinger
The simple solution being that I should get involved in organising something that is of no value to me?

My commitment to the job is beyond question - take one look at the hours I invest in trying to make my part of the organisation run, despite the best efforts of many people. Stop making such pathetic value judgements.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Jim30 said:
The simple solution being that I should get involved in organising something that is of no value to me?

My commitment to the job is beyond question - take one look at the hours I invest in trying to make my part of the organisation run, despite the best efforts of many people. Stop making such pathetic value judgements.

You do seem to have an appetite, but both feet..?! The job (whether RN or RNR) is more than just turning up at the requisite hours and doing enough to get paid. As my learned colleague above has already pointed out, some things are part of the baggage of Service life; to use a phrase "Life in a blue one".

We all have gripes about or respective jobs, and if life was perfect, then I doubt RR would be half as popular as it is. But to make such a major issue about your original post seems a little melodramatic and, in the grand scheme of things, quite selfish.

The title of the thread ("What is the point of the Wardroom in the RNR?") seems a bit sweeping; I assume you are referring to just your own WR rather than all WRs? If this is the case, then can I suggest you take up with your Mess President or CO? If it is not the case, and you do have an issue with all RNR WRs, then perhaps you might have to face the inevitable and look for alternative extra-curricular activities...

:roll:
 

F169

War Hero
Jim30,

you pay for it, you dont use it, you dont like paying. As a member of society without kids I pay for other people's kids' education, as someone who doesn't vote I pay for politicians, as someone who is employed I do not use the welfare system. As a member of a community/society we all pay for things we might not want to, its called life. Get over it.
 

Six_and_a_Half

Lantern Swinger
Look, sorry! But I feel I must put my tuppennies worth in here! To all intents and purposes, you do not enjoy drinking with your fellow officers. You also consider their conversation rather dull and boring. Well, here's an interesting tit-bit I learnt about making friends, old boy. Find some common ground! Rather then permit them to ramble on about T45's and such, just enter casual chit-chat with them at a polite and opportune moment. Ask them how their weekend was, for example.

Because I get the immpression that you do not particularly know your fellow officers very well, you will probably not actually care about what they got up to at the weekend. The purpose of the question is to secretly engage them onto a conversation that you both find mutually interesting! You may feel at present that there is nothing that you could possibly have in common, but you are both serving officers in the Royal Naval Reserve so simply must have certain similar attributes. Have faith, confidence and above all, have fun.

Now go out there and make some friends!
 
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