Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by SILVER_FOX, Jan 5, 2007.

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  1. A Christian Union group banned from student facilities is taking legal action under the Human Rights Act.

    Exeter University Evangelical Christian Union was suspended from the student guild and had a bank account frozen.

    The guild decided on the measures because the group asked members to sign a statement of religious belief.


    The question is whether this would have become an issue if the group in question was Muslim or some other non christian faith?

  2. But we don't live in a Christian country anymore mate.
    Christians are the new lepers in this country, to be treated as outcasts and misfits just like any Englishman is obviously racist for having the nerve to profess his Englishness!!
    Our "Socialist" government is in my opinion guilty of the very swift erosion of all that I used to hold dear about being born here. I used to be so very proud of this country and of the fact that I was British. Now I see myself as English only, living in a nation under seige from all sides, not just for my identity but for all that it stands for, and THAT includes religion. I don't want a multireligious society, I want a Christian society where non-Christians can feel safe and free from abuse, but that isn't going to happen here anymore.
  3. Hang on, isnt there an OTC at these universities? They arent open to everyone - what are the students guild going to do about them? When I was in an OTC our students union were going to ban us until about 600 OTC, URNU and Air Cadets turned up to their open meeting and voted against the left wing b******ds it was wonderful to watch them back down!
  4. My first reaction I must admit is good on the students of Exeter, student funds should not be used to promote organised religion.
  5. Farking hell! close all water tight doors and hatches! we should call this xenophobe ration after whats been on on here recently!

    Let me get this straight... This is england we're talking about yeah? part of britain? I just want to be sure before I start...

    points being:

    1) Left wing b*****ds? Whats that about then? Is socialism a bad thing? Is democratic choiuce a bad thing? They sorted the "socialist alternative" out in Nazi Germany by pushing them up a chimney and this country went to war to allow people what to think for themselves and not be persecuted.

    2) christian society where non christians aren't picked on? Whats that then? Do we have to go to church? Are we having christian views and rules? Or are we having the bastardised post excommunication of Henry VIII version?
  6. Once upon a time I used to work in Students' Unions so I used to see a lot of this type of [email protected]*e first hand.

    Personally, I think it's discriminating against the God-botherers.

    The National Union of Students has (or used to have) a black caucus where only black people were allowed to join. (But how black you had to be to join I've no idea)

    I've seen many SU approved Muslim or Afro-Carribbean societies where race or religion is a factor of membership. Some of these 'Asian' societies were just fronts for militant Islamic groups. I have seen literature published using SU resources on topics such as whose airliners it is OK to hijack.

    I also saw an Anarchist society disbanded because they refused to have elected chairman, treasurer etc. I think the sub-text was that despite being left wing they were vehemently anti-Marxist.

    Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual societies are another case in point. For example, the SU at East London had a constitution decreeing one night a month in the SU bar was 'Women's Night' and only women were allowed in. The reality was ten or fifteen lesbians would turn up, no heterosexual women would dare enter the place, the woman who helped ran the bar was abused for being heterosexual and any men who dared show their face was abused for being 'a potential rapist' (I was one of them :twisted: )

    SU politics - it's all bo110cks really.
  7. " SU politics - its all bo110cks really" - it would be except where do you think the SU activists end up, EG Peter Hain?

    Sweeney - dont know about point 2 but point 1 is my point exactly. In the case I described "democracy" in the form of about 600 concerned students put the little left wing B******s back in their box. There was a vote and they lost. They were extremely left wing (EG some were socialist workers) and were, if left unchecked, without doubt a danger to democracy in that particular student union. Unfortunately for them someone read their agenda and heard about the motion to expel the services from campus. The vast majority of course were to blame because they couldn't give a sh1t what the little monkeys got up to in their name.
  8. i think point 2 was aimed at me but i'm not going to rise to that rubbish :)
  9. maxi wrote: My first reaction I must admit is good on the students of Exeter, student funds should not be used to promote organised religion.

    I completely agree mate. As an ex Catholic who had it beaten into him (literally) as a kid I am the last to advocate any kind of organised religion. These students have made their stand – that is to be admired at least. Not enough in this country are willing to stand up for what they believe in.

    What bothers me though is that the same sort of attitudes / actions aren't taken against minority religious groups for fear of upsetting them. I'm not xenophobic but I would like to see a fair implementation of all rules and regulations for all things across the board - whether this be employment, education, law enforcement, religion or anything else for that matter. Forget positive discrimination, quotas, etc – lets have the right (best qualified) person for the job, etc.

    I am not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me. It is my opinion. The fact that this does not happen often enough is possibly one of the greatest travesties of our time.

  10. The various left wing factions within student union politics used to make me laugh.

    The Socialist Workers were a complete joke. Noisy and foot stompy, always the first to wave placards saying 'NO!' to whatever the issue was that particular week but still a joke.

    I used to work at a place where they had (might still do) their annual conference. Loads of petitions everywhere, always being asked to sign this or contribute to that even though they could see you were staff. Loads of seminars on 'Preparing for Revolution' and gash like that when all they would talk about is setting up this committee or that committee no actual revolutionary stuff like how to roadblock a town, how to make IED's, how to create a radio station, how to conduct guerilla warfare etc. They were all scruffy too. Their policies changed constantly from being against the EU to supporting it. Load of idiots. I wouldn't be surprised if they were heavily infiltrated by the Security Service.

    The scary ones were the Revolutionary Communist Party. Their conference was quiet, they were all quite smart and polite. They seemed quite serious.

    Outside both conferences 'Class War' the anarchist group would turn up handing out leaflets saying how State collectivism was a Bad Thing and they should all become Anarcho-syndicalists. They were a scruffy bunch too but seemed more intelligent than the other bunch.

    Eventually these people seem to get disillusioned / grow up and get jobs. Then there's the likes of Peter Hain, Oona King and other NUS types who've only ever known school and politics..... :?

    Anyway, here's your share of democracy. Use them wisely:

    X X X X X X X X X X X X
  11. I think you are all confusing the issue here. The problem is that the Christian Union insists than only its particular evangelical brand of Christianity is acceptable and that any Christian student or student wishing to explore Christianity must subscribe to their narrow interpretation prior to being eligible for membership. Roman Catholics and other Christians who do not subscribe to their particular Christian Agenda will be inaligible for membership - which is harly Christian! This is the real issue. For the record, they are also opposed by Christian Clergy who are unhappy with their exclusiveness and the potential harm they could cause vulnerable and initially homesick students, for which evidence supporting these concerns already exists.

    A University Christian Union should be open to all Christians and students wishing to learn more about the faith. It should allow all Christian points of view to be represented and freely discussed. The modern incarnations of the evangelical Christian Unions are not, as they were in the past, inclusive. In effect it is like saying that you can be a Christian student in Exeter's campus but you cannot join the Student's own Christian body if, for example, you are a Roman Catholic! Some of us call that Christian Apartheid! I'm a humanist, but I still believe that Christian students should be entitled to have their own students' body - but it must be open to ALL Christians, not just Protestants! :evil: :x :x :x

    PS: Part of the problem is that the SU itself has in part lost the plot. They are opposed to any Christian body on campus which excludes women, gays or ethnic minorities. Well objectionable though that might be, at the end of the day the Bible does contain texts which exclude women, gays, Jews, the disabled and ethnic minorites - so that however distasteful one may find it, excluding ALL these groups from membership is theologically consistent, if one disregards Paul, who arguably distorted the original Christian message in any event. The real problem is theological inconsistency. Nevertheless many Christians do regard homosexuality as being incompatible with being a Christian and make no distinction between orientation and practice, in the same way that some Christians regard inter-racial marriage as Biblically unacceptable. In a free society we should be mature enough to accomodate these groups, so long as other campus groups exist to accomodate students who are Christian but cannot conform to the perfectionist ideal of one particular evangelical ideology.
  12. Sweeney,

    Most English law is grounded upon Christian moral principles, which is why is can seem so un-liberal at times. Actually until 1987 when lots of obsolete mediæval laws were finally repealled en masse, church attendance on Sunday followed by archery practice was compulsory for all adult males. It wasn't enforced of course, except perhaps in the recent past by the RN, but it could have been! We are of course still subject to Christian jurisprudence: our legal definitions are still largely grounded in theological basic concepts (topoi). For example marriage (historically a Pagan institution - Christ encouraged his followers to abandon their families to follow Him) is between a man and woman. That definition is wholly religious, not rational. Indeed strictly speaking, in English law marriage is a Christian institution, so that non-Christian unions are arguably not real marriages at all - but this is legal semantics here. For example in England and Wales it is still illegal to have a Humanist wedding, though legal in Scotland, despite the fact that this violates the Human Rights Act 1998. The relevant Minister (herself a Christian) recently told Humanists that the Church of England must grant its consent before Humanists are allowed to have Humanist weddings! So you are quite right - Christians are indeed allowed to decide who is entitled to certain basic rights!

    Finally, Christian, like Muslim and Jewish scripture, puts God's law abouve Man made law. In other words, all are theologically opposed to the primacy of democracy since it places man-made law above God's law. Democracy is incompatible with theocratic legal principles - hence the need for torchlight processions outside Parliament... which rather reminds me of the torchlight processions outside to Reichstag in 1933... Have you ever read Mein Kampf Sweeney? Hitler justifies his anti-Semitism and other beliefs by repeated quotations from the New Testament. So much for him being an athiest!


  13. So many christians. So few lions.

  14. AAC, I agreed with much of your points. I am a Christian and despite having been to 2 different Uni's never joined a CU for exactly the reasons you stated. They have a very narrow view of Christianity and it often seemed to me to be about power trips (I might not be benig entirely fair here!!). The Uni's need a true Christian Union, not what is often a narrow sect. I am fed up with those "Christians" who pick bits of scripture which coincidently support their prejudices, while ignoring ones that will make life difficult for them. Peake's commentary on the Bible was published about 1918, and for a Christian to say today that the Bible is literal truth shows that they are theologically ignorant. Unfortuntatly too often University Christian Unions want to continue this theological ignorance.

    Rather than ban them thy should have a bit added into their constitution saying that they welcome Christians of all denominations.

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