Wearing uniform in public

Should we be allowed to wear uniform in public?

  • Some of the time

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    246

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
jungly wrote: On a slightly different tack, and I'm sure covered elsewhere, if the Army is so overstretched, perhaps Jack could take over the ceremonial duties in London, that should free up at least a Bde of combat troops. Having matelots guarding HM would raise our visibility with civ pop. Plus, imagine the hoofing runs ashore you could have whilst living in Windsor and central London.

What a flipping brilliant idea mate. Admiralty type bods ... if you're listening .... ?

SF
 

geoffg

Lantern Swinger
When I was a baby tiff, we had to wear rig ashore till Caledonia. I cant remember what class you could wear civvies. Everyone looked forward to the first run ashore in civvies. Then going ashore in rig was also a risk cos of nutters targeting service personell. Same as car stickers were banned (Submen are Super etc.)
geoff(ers) :???:
 
boredwafu said:
junglyAEO said:
On a slightly different tack, and I'm sure covered elsewhere, if the Army is so overstretched, perhaps Jack could take over the ceremonial duties in London, that should free up at least a Bde of combat troops. Having matelots guarding HM would raise our visibility with civ pop. Plus, imagine the hoofing runs ashore you could have whilst living in Windsor and central London.]


Does anyone ever recall actually Jack doing Buck House guard, if so, when ?

I've only seen us doing Whitehall route manning, and the gun carriage hauling (and that was many years ago), but never manning the post at the Palace.
I had posed a question to the Daily Mail Questions once, but never received an answer.
Any older, I mean more experienced, exJacks out there have any recollection ?
 

dunkers

War Hero
letthecatoutofthebag said:
junglyAEO said:
On a slightly different tack, and I'm sure covered elsewhere, if the Army is so overstretched, perhaps Jack could take over the ceremonial duties in London, that should free up at least a Bde of combat troops. Having matelots guarding HM would raise our visibility with civ pop. Plus, imagine the hoofing runs ashore you could have whilst living in Windsor and central London.
However, it would give the impression that there are sailors doing nothing or doing jobs that are not considered as important as the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and that they were surplus to requirements. Hardly the image we wish to portray to the public.

Would it not be a better idea - to show how versatile Jack is - to reinsitute the Royal Naval Divisions. Get a group of matelots, raise a batallion sized formation that could go to Iraq and do guard duties etc within the relatively secure areas and leave the infantry type skirmishes/ actions to Royal and Percy??
Have heard from a 1* RM that "clever ways" (his words) are being looked at to use naval personnell to assist in army ops. I believe what you are suggesting - a sort of RAF Regt-style guarding of bases etc - has not been ruled out for the RN.

These days there's no way we could manage a Division sized element but a company, maybe.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
whitemouse said:
boredwafu said:
junglyAEO said:
On a slightly different tack, and I'm sure covered elsewhere, if the Army is so overstretched, perhaps Jack could take over the ceremonial duties in London, that should free up at least a Bde of combat troops. Having matelots guarding HM would raise our visibility with civ pop. Plus, imagine the hoofing runs ashore you could have whilst living in Windsor and central London.]


Does anyone ever recall actually Jack doing Buck House guard, if so, when ?

I've only seen us doing Whitehall route manning, and the gun carriage hauling (and that was many years ago), but never manning the post at the Palace.
I had posed a question to the Daily Mail Questions once, but never received an answer.
Any older, I mean more experienced, exJacks out there have any recollection ?
Found this link from 2000:

RAN UK guard duties

Also the RN gets a mention for State Funerals in this link:

Ceremonial Funeral Procession
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Wearing uniform in public in the right place and time is a good sensible idea but as we have it now wandering around in working dress is probably not all that clever - bloody scruffy even! On the ferry (Tarpoint me 'ansom) this lunch time a bunch of varii matelots were coming off all dressed in what the 'short changed navy' call I believe Number 4s (used to be 8s guess you've lost four uniforms, goes with the ships!) looked like a bunch of scruffy girl guides (including the blokes) then I saw the lieutenant and realised that girl guides have adult leaders (the smarter ones were actually the girlies, not that you can tell the difference these days). Sometime ago spotted a 'jenny' in #4's on the Exeter to Plymouth train swiging a can - not a good advert for anything! Working dress is deffinately not on in public, might be comfortable but smart? no way!
 

slim

War Hero
As a sad old git No 4s (8s to us old farts) are working dress and should be kept for that purpose. They certainly should not be used to proceed ashore. If we wish to keep the respect of the public we need to present them with a smart image.
 

Karma

War Hero
slim said:
....They certainly should not be used to proceed ashore. If we wish to keep the respect of the public we need to present them with a smart image.
I think that's one of the key issues. The guidance mainly applies to those of us traveling to and from work, since I don't really see the need to nip down to Tesco of a Saturday in uniform. Since it applies to traveling to and from work then that implies working dress; White shirt and black trousers for Officers, SRs and JRs (as required), 4s for SRs and JRs, particularly those in the dockyard environment, DPM as required and Lovats or DPM for Royal.

As far as I'm concerned it's not the uniform itself, but the effort to keep it clean, tidy and presentable to the public. You can end up a complete scranbag in 3s just as much as in 4s, although getting to that state is a lot easier in 4s. It is perfectly possible to keep 4s presentable, but it means replacing them far more regularly than is currently planned for.

One of the main things is, what's appropriate? I have no big issue with the lunchtime pint somewhere along the hard, but would have an issue with an after-hours run ending up in Port Solent at 2300, equally 4s covered in paint, oil, grease or otherwise on the Gosport ferry at 1700 would be inappropriate. Stopping in one of the greasy spoons along the Portsmouth to Plymouth route, or in a motorway service station I'd be expecting to see 3s (black and white) with wither berets or caps.

Mind you, I'm not sure that the wooly pully is a good thing to be wearing in public and I'm not convinced that the open neck shirt underneath presents the best image.
 

slim

War Hero
Karma said:
slim said:
....They certainly should not be used to proceed ashore. If we wish to keep the respect of the public we need to present them with a smart image.
I think that's one of the key issues. The guidance mainly applies to those of us traveling to and from work, since I don't really see the need to nip down to Tesco of a Saturday in uniform. Since it applies to traveling to and from work then that implies working dress; White shirt and black trousers for Officers, SRs and JRs (as required), 4s for SRs and JRs, particularly those in the dockyard environment, DPM as required and Lovats or DPM for Royal.

As far as I'm concerned it's not the uniform itself, but the effort to keep it clean, tidy and presentable to the public. You can end up a complete scranbag in 3s just as much as in 4s, although getting to that state is a lot easier in 4s. It is perfectly possible to keep 4s presentable, but it means replacing them far more regularly than is currently planned for.

One of the main things is, what's appropriate? I have no big issue with the lunchtime pint somewhere along the hard, but would have an issue with an after-hours run ending up in Port Solent at 2300, equally 4s covered in paint, oil, grease or otherwise on the Gosport ferry at 1700 would be inappropriate. Stopping in one of the greasy spoons along the Portsmouth to Plymouth route, or in a motorway service station I'd be expecting to see 3s (black and white) with wither berets or caps.

Mind you, I'm not sure that the wooly pully is a good thing to be wearing in public and I'm not convinced that the open neck shirt underneath presents the best image.
Well put, however scruffy uniform whatever the No worn in public at any time should be discouraged.
The wooly pully with white open necked shirt and black trousers to my mind looks smart, providing the pully is hole free, the trousers well pressed and the shoes polished.
 
A

angrydoc

Guest
4s are permitted ashore for practicality reasons - nipping to the bank over lunchtime etc. However, my problem with rig ashore is that it is almost never complete. People seem to think they don't need to wear headgear when out of a base, and I echo the comments about swigging from a can or listening to an iPod.

I have been very tempted to pull quite a few lads up but at the time I've been in civvies and didn't want to look an arse. I end up in Sainsburys in rig quite often as I go there on the way home from work but I suppose it's different in Pompey because of the Naval tradition.

Just why does MoD Main Building have to be a uniform-free zone? What is the "practical reason"?
 

polab

Midshipman
You've got to remember, as echoed elsewhere, the only time you'd wear rig in public is simply practicality reasons. Therefore Jack should never be seen ashore in 1s. If you've been working in 3s, 4s or 9s, wear them on your way home from work, just remember they have to be smat, and if you don't wear headgear or shoes for god's sake wear a civvy jacket over your uniform.
 

stirling2

Banned
polab said:
You've got to remember, as echoed elsewhere, the only time you'd wear rig in public is simply practicality reasons. Therefore Jack should never be seen ashore in 1s. If you've been working in 3s, 4s or 9s, wear them on your way home from work, just remember they have to be smat, and if you don't wear headgear or shoes for god's sake wear a civvy jacket over your uniform.
I disagree....when there used to be an 'art' in dressing in No 1s ( separate collar, silk, bell bottoms etc) Jack looked the business ashore and I was extremly proud to wear mine....judging by some of the comments that pride seems to be lost on some.
 

2badge_mango

War Hero
I agree with Stirling.
It was about 1956 when junior rates were first allowed ashore in civvies. I was at Mercury and, as a Leading Hand, still had to fall in for libertymen and be inspected by the OOD and suffer the eagle eye of a member of the reg staff - and that was only to get on the bus to married quarters!!
J/Rs carrying civvies on board ship came in a few years later, but only for ships in home ports. Elsewhere No2s/6s, with variations (2as,6as), and 10s for daytime runs abroad were de rigeur.
When I was POOG at Raleigh in the 60s, all YMUT wore No 2s, and were inspected before proceeding ashore. Minor faults were picked up and the rating sent back to his mess to amend same, would be allowed to "catch the next liberty boat" if satisfactory.
In the Fleet, immense pride was taken in preparing for a run ashore, and it was almost unheard of to see a scruffy matelot.

How things change!!

2BM
 

dunkers

War Hero
stirling said:
I disagree....when there used to be an 'art' in dressing in No 1s ( separate collar, silk, bell bottoms etc) Jack looked the business ashore and I was extremly proud to wear mine....judging by some of the comments that pride seems to be lost on some.
Now the silk is once again seperate but the bow is a ready-made thing sewn into the silk. It looks terrible. Bear in mind also that you only get one set of no 1's now (with gold badges) so I suppose everyone wants to keep that set in good condition rather than wear it out.

Raleigh still inspects those trainees going on the liberty boat even though they are wearing civvies (they have to be "respectable" civvies).
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
Going out for a foreign run ashore in No1s looks the dogs dangly bits, but in the UK? Well I for one wouldn't if I was somewhere like Guzz or dog shit city but on a ship's visit to somewhere 'oop north' for example then why not?
As for being seen in public in working rig doing a bit of shopping or travelling home etc don't have a problem with that as long as it's clean and smart. It can only raise the Navy's profile. The Army are constantly seen in public in CS95s which is their working rig and as we are more and more a purple organisation with many more matelots also working in CS95s (I'm one) then we also should be seen. The Navy tends to be the poor relations when it comes to PR, let's change that.
 

bigbungy

Badgeman
Some of my best runs ashore have been 'rig runs' down the smoke over a weekend when i'd run out of warrents to get home. We would get away with murder in the rig, especially with our HM Submarines cap tallies. PLUS all the fanney you could muster. Something todays matelots probably have not experienced. Yes, i could recommend a rig run to anyone, especially 'up north' where they never see matelots.
'Touch yer collar Jack'? YES PLEASE !
 

dunkers

War Hero
If anyone outside Guzz or Pompey saw someone in no 1 rig, there's a fair chance they would think it was some kind of fancy dress costume.
 
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