We pay to have an underclass

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, Aug 29, 2007.

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  1. An interesting article which seems to put many of our social problems in a nutshell


    An Excerpt

    Has anyone noticed, either, that what we used to call the working class has shrunk? Not merely because, as surveys tell us, so many now think of themselves as "middle-class", but because something called the respectable working class has almost died out. What sociologists used to call the working class does not now usually work at all, but is sustained by the welfare state. Its supposed family units are not as the rest of us might define the term. It lapses routinely into criminality and lives in largely self-inflicited squalor. It has low educational attainment and is bereft of ambition. It is what we now call the underclass.
  2. We'eell, I agree with most of his analysis but even by the standards of Heffer he was almost a parody of himself here. The number of assumptions he makes in the first paragraphs, particularly with reference to drugs etc, is breathtaking and leaves rather a nasty taste. Please don't misunderstand me, I have very little sympathy for the perpetrators of this act but this level of sweeping generalisation and assumption is a gift to those wh would characterise any crackdown in law and order as part of the Tory "lurch to the right." There are ways and means if achieving this but clearly this issue got Heffer angry. As a result, his usual fairly eloquent expressions that the world is going to hell in a handcart got subsumed beneath a torrent of rage which actually serves to weaken his case.
  3. I don’t think that all socialised welfare states are doomed to failure. Many of our socially thriving European counterparts are drowning in taxes, taxes used to remedy the troubles of the poor- of the ‘underclass’. However, Britain’s problems are far worse, I fear that common decency is dead and I blame this on the disintegration of family life not on the welfare state. I am proud to be the granddaughter of a miner, and the daughter of a working class man who has worked to better himself for the sake of his family. For much of my childhood I grew up in a naff area, attended schools with the ‘underclass’ and have been exposed to the woes of modern society. The sole reason I am not still in bed at 10am, in a vodka induced coma wearing my Reebok hoody is because I was raised as part of a strong family unit.

    We could move towards the USA’s approach, one which champions every man for himself but is this really the panacea? The USA, the World’s richest nation, has the highest infant mortality rates, shortest life expectancy, the worst levels of literacy, and highest levels of gun crime in the Western World.

    I will pay my taxes if it means free health care, a free education and free services for all because that is the British way- as soon as we let that slip our problems will only worsen and I will be ashamed to call myself British.
  4. Unfortunately the British way of life has changed beyond recognition over the last 30 years.
    Successive governments have taken from the working class and given to the shirking class.
    Far too many are choosing social security as a lifestyle and have no intention of ever working.
  5. I am 21 and have never really known British life to be anything than it is today. Successive generations have reminisced on "life back when". Slim, is it really that much worse today? Would I have been able to read Architecture at university (not a Mickey Mouse one either) or been able to attend BRNC 30 years ago as a working class girl? (I am not being pedantic I am genuinely interested)

    I am not saying the social system we operate is perfect but look at the alternatives, would they be any better?
  6. Just wondering what the difference is!

    We have the shirkers claiming from the tax payer. Bless em!!

    Then we have the millionaire factory owner who pays naff all wages so the family man can go claim family income support paid by the tax payer.

    It has always puzzled me that one.

    I do know not every business person are not millionaires but I do know many who pay naff all and have the workforce claiming FIS. Things may have changed over the years been a long time since I clocked on in the UK.
  7. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer the working class are still the working class its every lazy no good bum that brings the system down for every 1 worker there is about 3 shirkers and u cant blame the people who get paid less for claiming subsidies the whole goverment is involved there all lining each others pockets they are corupt b**tards

  8. Very true Slim,

    That's why I will be waving UK PLc goodbye in due course.
  9. Sara - you would have been able to become an officer in the WRNS since at that time Ladies could not hold a commission in the RN hence the blue rings until about 1980 (If I remember correctly). All lady sailors joined at Dauntless (or Haslar if they going to be Nurses). All had to do time as a WRN / nurse before they were elevated to Officer / Matron status - wore white flashes on their uniform same as Upper - Yardsmen.

    Other factors have come into play that started - in my opinion - in the late 60's early 1970's. UK was becoming less of an industrial power - apprentice schemes went and the lack of "A Job for Life" where you joined companies at 15 and left gold watch in hand a 65 if you survived - with this demise came the demise of the social pecking order with the working man. which carried on in social life as well - e.g. if you went to the miners welfare club as youth (old enough to drink) deference was still paid to the top hands and foremen - The Miners strike with dear Margaret Hilda was the point that finally broke that.
    Blue Collar folk being able to go abroad for holidays (where laws regarding drinking were none existent) in stead of freezing your butt off in Mablethorpe or Butlins gave the social climate a jolt as well and a realisation to many that - I want some of that.
    To summarise - all were available then for those who wished to try - sometime against massive peer pressure - who the bloody hell does she think she is. I suppose your to good to be talking to us now.
  11. Sara
    Those from working class backgrounds have always (since the 1960s) had the opportunity to go to university. Unfortunately in the case of my wife who left school at 16 with 9 GCE(O) Levels her father would not let her stay on at school and got to university. This happenned all too often in working class homes. Selection for officer in the 60s and 70s was certainly more difficult for those of working class background, though many did make it. As a PO wren my wife was asked if she would like to be considered for a commission, however she declined as her family background would almost certainly have excluded her.
    Unfortunately our social security system has evolved into a shirkers charter, many no longer see that they have responsibilities and believe that the government is responsible for housing, clothing and feeding them, plus supplying them with cash for them to spend.
  12. I do know not every business person are not millionaires but I do know many who pay naff all and have the workforce claiming FIS (Backpacker Quote)

    And in the mid to late seventies, the RN`s workforce with family were claiming it as well, including Submariners.

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