Watchkeeping pattern - annual leave.

Discussion in 'Bases / Shore Est' started by Chaz, Aug 3, 2013.

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  1. Am currently in a watchkeeping role at RAF Digby and have a query that someone may be able to assist me with.I've looked through JSP 760 and I can't find any definitive guidelines/rules.My watch pattern is as follows: Night, Night, 24 off, Day Day (all 12 hours shifts), this is followed by 96 hours off and the cycle starts again. A complete cycle is 8 days. I have to take my ALA with someone covering my watches.Now, when I want to take a complete 'string' of watches off, I've been told that I've got to submit 6 days ALA, to cover a 5 day cycle! This doesn't seem right to me, I'm just wondering if someone else can give me any official references/ruling for this before I take it up with my hierarchy.Thanks in advance
  2. And for some reason my post has ignored new paragraphs etc - apologies. I'll blame DII!
  3. I'd suggest that they give the reasoning IAW the JSP for them wanting you to put in 6 days ALA. I would expect a lot of bluster, blushing and farting and nothing in writing......
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  4. The fact you put RAF in the post, they have some seriously strange rules ref leave.
  5. In that case they need to learn the matelot rules.
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  6. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I have worked all sorts of weird shift patterns, both in and out of Service, so can empathise.

    I assume the pattern is continual, throughout the year? Are there not enough personnel in each shift to allow for a standdown? Perhaps the roster can be amended to allow for leave allowances: say, every 12 cycles (Day, Day, 24 off, Night, Night, 96 off) there is a protracted period - a week or ten days, for example - during which leave can be taken? Obviously this is dependent on the number of personnel you have to accommodate this process.
  7. This is an interesting one and I will say right at the start that it isn't one I can quote any references on, but if you will indulge me, my analysis of the situation would be:.

    Your watchkeeping cycle is 8 days in which you are doing shifts on 4, (including the 24 off) and then the 4 (96hrs) off.

    Clearly the 4 off don't count as leave when you are 'working' but of course the question is, 'should they be included as leave when you take ALA?'

    Given that those of us who work 'office hours' don't have to include weekends in our ALA I would suggest that you are entitled to 2 days not being included in your ALA count which comes down to the 6 that you say you are being told you have to put in for a whole cycle off. To be honest I can see the logic in that, as your 96hrs off are factored in as part of your 'working' cycle. If you only had to put in 4 days ALA there is certainly an angle that says you would be getting the 96hr off without doing the watches to earn it.

    I think that if I were running such a system, I would make it policy that the last 2 days were equivalent to weekends and then you simply put the dates of the first 6 into JPA. The actual days that fell on real weekends wouldn't come off of your ALA total so sometimes it would cost you 5 days ALA, sometimes 4. It would average out the same for everyone over the long term, you would get a little bit of extra time off to recompense you for watchkeeping routines, but also not give you the full 96hrs off buckshee when you were on leave.
  8. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    I can only assume that it is to take into account the very generous 96 off. On fish boats our "off watch" was taken from our ILA in a similar manner. To be honest, I'd be careful what you drip about. pusser has a habit of giving with one hand and taking with two!!!:scratch:
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  9. Wise words TO!
  10. Thanks for the input gents, it's appreciated. I've work many systems and the deduction of leave etc has never been the same, the JSP is grey to say the least. I've also learn't over the years it's not always wise to drip, as you say TO it can bite you on the arse at times! Thanks again.
  11. It's not grey, it's just lazy because everyone works different shift patterns. The JSP kicks it down to local command, who can then run shift patterns however they like. However, the local regulations should be covered in their version of Ship Standing Orders and should be robust enough detailing the why's and wherefores of their policy. Digby is known as being a very strange place anyway.
  12. You should be entitled to two days off a week as weekend leave, if not you should have days of "toil" which are separate to ILA. So if your only getting two days off in a seven day period you shouldn't have two days deducted from your ILA just your toil. The 24 hrs Inbetween nights and days is a recuperation period and shouldn't be classed as leave either.

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  13. Not necessarily true, because the JSP section relating to watchkeeping is massively open to interpretation and allows local command to run their train set of leave however they want. So if they want personnel to put in ILA for periods which fall into the working week, then that's what personnel are to do.

    With regards to weekend leave, this is a gratuity that should still be entered onto JPA for the weekends because home then becomes your place of duty. If you then happen to crash the car and die on the way back to work, then MoD insurance will cover your death. If you couldn't be bothered, because it wasn't in the regs or so you're otherwise told, then you aren't covered and the MoD might be nice and give something, if only to stop the family from whinging to the press. Also, if you work on a non-PAYD site like I do, then you will also not be charged for food when sitting on the backside at home.

    If you could also kindly point everyone to those references about your points, that would be fantastic. Many thanks.
  14. Yep, the JSP quotes 'local management' - great that! Guess it'll be differently managed from place to place.What's "very strange" about Digby?
  15. Every point you made is true. From my experience (I've been doing 12 hour shifts for the last 8 years when not doing watches at sea) this is how it generally works. This individual must have an awful management. He must use all his Ala in about 4 months and have no actual days to put in when he gets his actual block leave.

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  16. Besides that it's nearly full of crabs? Dealing with their admin office is always an experience that I wish I didn't have to do on a semi-regular basis.
  17. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    Jimbo, toil is subject to local regulations too. I don't ever recall seeing it written anywhere as it doesn't apply to ships, but many shoreside organisations have a toil routine.
  18. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    I'm sure it's not. I have known it to be stopped in SFM before according to the wishes of whichever captain is in charge at the time.
  19. Wrong! They don't even make up half of the bods here!
  20. Happy with that. I can cope with few crabs. Still don't like dealing with their admin office though :p

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