Wardroom on tour.......NOT

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by sinbad, Nov 3, 2007.

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  1. This is merely out of interest I'm not out to slag anyone................yet!!!

    With all the recent mobilisations can anyone tell me the number of Officers deployed operationally in the Gulf (not in the UK sat at a desk i.e. able to go weekenders). With all the SR's & JR's going out there for SPO, Medics and Logies duties what exactly is the ratio. How many are actually used 'in theatre' or do the top brass of the RNR volunteer everyone else except officers. None seem to be deployed with their SPO teams as the manager is always a CPO or PO. I also remember ther last compulsary mobilisation loads of SR's and JR's from each unit but a vastly inferior number of wardroom candidates.
    As always I stand to be corrected........awaiting enlightenment. :boogie:
  2. Our skipper was out doing medical stuff (3 time actually) in Iraq, dont know of anyone else but Im sure there are loads.
  3. I know who you are referring to..... so at least we know what one of them is doing. So waht about the rest ? especially 2 1/2 's !!!!
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Oh dear, no relation to Norman are we?
  5. Don't think so, this is a legitimate question, the RNR has a lot of SO2s, many of whom are pretty long in the tooth.

    That said, I don't think there is going to be an answer on here. I'm not going to quote figures but I know of enough billets which are manned to the requirement which lead to at least 12 to 15 percent of the total RNR deployment being orficers. Some are SO2s in SO3 billets, at least one is an SO2 in an SO1 billet.

    There is a visibility thing, as Sinbad highlights ratings deploy in teams, whereas officers generally deploy into singleton staff billets so people don't see that they're in post. I'd hesitate to recommend sending a junior officer to do a SRs job as has been suggested above.

    There are also a small number in backfill billets, releasing a regular to deploy. It's a little easier to manage that way as getting the required training isn't as much of a challenge as it is for RNR.
  6. If your not quoting figures, what's 12- 15 % then made up of ??? :crazy: as i previously stated how many are in theatre ??? remember COMRES always talks about selling the usefulness of the RNR to the RN . So what's the sales pitch for the officers except for management boards at RTC's etc.. I can't understand what use SO'2 and SO'3 are in the Gulf .....but maybe they will never be there so why worry. Why don't Officers deploy with the teams - chain of command and all.... then they might have a insight into leadership at the pointy end, LEAD BY EXAMPLE how can they sell what they haven't a clue about. Get the T-shirt first 'been there done it' etc..... Most units are v top heavy in the wardroom area is it because it's a safer option with a nice uniform and decorations ?? We are starting to run out of the officers who HAVE proved themselves as exceptional leaders/ officers off the old MSF's. Most of these questions are being raised a NCO levels and will need to be addressed at some occasion as we will run out of SR's & JR's for mobilisation because the pool is not endless. Lets lead by example ......FROM THE FRONT.

    As for Norman he's never alone he's got SR's & JR's with him!!
  7. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    I can think of half a dozen officers at SO2 and SO1 level currently on deployment. Just because YOU don't see it doesnt mean it isn't happening.
  8. There are at least 2 officers that I know of working with the RM in one of those hostile environments and I know of another 3 on 2 and 1/2 rank who have been mobilised to provide support for their branch.

  9. So that make's a total of 6...................so far............value for money or wot!! i know we can't discuss in greater detail. but it must be obvious to e one the ratio is a bit one sided..life in a blue suit I guess.....must embarass most officers tho thousands 'o'pounds to train and in the end no operational necessity realisation must kick in a t some time............COMRES deploy officers where you expect others to go.......don't send others were you wouldn't go yurself lite weight !!!!
  10. the_matelot

    the_matelot War Hero Moderator

    I know of several RNR Officers who have deployed operationally-as mentioned before, just because you don't have visibility of them, doesn't mean that they're not out and about.

    By their very nature, you are not going to see RNR Officers in an N2/N3 billet knocking about necessarily in the same areas that the SPO Teams operate in.
  11. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    ALso worth noting that according to Hansard, only 30 odd reservists from the RNR are currently mobilised. So roughly 1/3rd of the strength mobilised are officers (itro 10)

    Also, remember that many officers doing specialised jobs are on FTRS and may well be doing their job, just on a full time basis anyway. There is less need for an FTRS SPO team.
  12. I'm not entirely sure what your point is with this response, but I'll try ;) I have a feeling that your issue is not that officers are deploying, it's that they're not deploying with you.

    I'm assuming that you're AWFP, given your emphasis on deploying officers in that role. FP teams don't need an officer, and given the nature of the work you'd be hard pressed to find officers employed in a similar role across the armed forces.

    I'm sure you're aware that there are a couple of branches which are wholly made up of officers at present, and they have several people deployed at any one time, plus the training commitment to prepare others for filling the deployed jobs.

    There is more to the RNR world than FP, but by it's nature the employment of officers in the deployed environment isn't all that high profile.
  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Not sure whether it's happened yet, (as it did in the last Gulf war), but there was talk of the RM Band service (RMBS) being either deployed or requesting volunteers in the FP role.

    It's an interesting concept with the RMBS as many think they can only be utilised in the first aid/level 3 medical role, but they undergo 15 weeks military phase one training - more in fact than your average matelot undertakes and equal to some Army infantry regiments. And that includes females.
  14. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    That is just the funniest thing I have ever heard! Having spent 4yrs on those puppies (on the LD and in the WR - 1 CTC, two RTCs and 3 MSFs) I was always amazed at we were a 2SL/CNH asset and not sponsored by Gordons Gin! Eventually it got to be professional but it was at times like Carry On Minewarfare.

    Exceptional leaders - never met one, there were some pretty decent guys driving the MSFs and some reasonable COs of units but they were a hardcore of people who disappeared not long after the reorganisation of the RNR.

    There seems to be a real issue that people cannot accept why there are so many SO1-SO3s in the RNR/RNR. They simply do different jobs - why would you send an SO2/SO3 with a SPO team to the Gulf, the platform they are going to will have 18-26 Officers already, no bunk space and people who can absorb the role of watching over the team. The poor Officer is going to have so little to do in practical terms he'll feel like a fish out of water when the rest of the Wardroom are up to their neck in work. And before you go there, no he probably won't be able to take on much to help unless he is STCW and Ops Room qualified.

    If your perspective is as narrow as Normans' chaps then I suggest you need to take a hard look at what the RN and RNR actually do, if you're questioning why we need so many Officers you haven't got a handle on how your organisations work.
  15. National Statistics Website has the following Stats as of 1 Apr 2007 for Maritime Reserves: (RNR & RMR, no breakdown of each service)
    Officers Mobilised: 30
    Ratings Mobilsed: 50

    Same site gives Officer strength at 980 and Ratings at 1990, so roughly a 1:3 Ratio.

    Looking back at historical Data for 2003:
    Officers Mobilised: 110
    Ratings Mobilsed: 290

    Hope this helps!!

    Can't understand how Officers should deploy with their SPO teams when they don't belong to SPO teams, AWFP is a Ratings only branch (stand fast 4 or so RFPO's)
    Bit Like asking why Air Branch Ratings aren't being mobilised to pilot aircraft.
  16. Levers_Aligned

    Levers_Aligned War Hero Moderator

    Ninja. Why does anyone who asks a contentious question out of leftfield have to be a 'Norman'? Maybe we should all get back to slagging Moslems off and calling for the birch to be reinstated, eh?

  17. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    C'Mon levers it was hardly a leftfield question - it was heading straight for "we have have too many Officers, they don't do anything.." territory.

    In fact it was pretty much in there already. Hardly something new and pretty much the same tired old rot that Norman regularly trots out.
  18. As I intitially stated -'I wasn't out to slag anyone' and 'As always I stand to be corrected........awaiting enlightenment' I'm glad this instigated a number of replies. It has helped to show that everyone is involved in the big picture in some way or another.

    I only mentioned Officers with SPO teams, as in 2003 some SR's came back stating they could have done withthe good old divisional system on STUFT.
  19. That is just the funniest thing I have ever heard! Having spent 4yrs on those puppies (on the LD and in the WR - 1 CTC, two RTCs and 3 MSFs) I was always amazed at we were a 2SL/CNH asset and not sponsored by Gordons Gin! Eventually it got to be professional but it was at times like Carry On Minewarfare.

    You seem to forget these men where able to qualify to take out sweepers with only w/e and fortnightly training which in my eyes was an achievement but i did spend over 15 years on them so i had more of an insight on them than you, i think you're only talkin about the one ship you served on. I served with most divisions at one time another, YOU ?
  20. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Only the 3 MSFs as I said, but knew lots of the COs - including all the one's who were ex-RN and gained their tickets that way!

    Gaining the OOW/NAV and Command Exams is an achievement granted but its not the exceptional leadership that you were citing. Thats a rare beast even in the RN where COs have had a protracted time to develop, in the RNR it was as rare as hens teeth. Actually thinking about it pretty much all of the ones I knew are all gone now anyway.

    They were characters certainly - the "Wookie", Chris B, Paddy H (all from my favourite RTC), that chopper (ex-TA, e-RN (SM) who insisted on stalking the bridge in his combat jacket - I still see him often at PJHQ or he has a doppleganger), the MaxFacs Surgeon - who seemed to be whisked off to do emergency surgery every time we sailed, the CO at FF who looked like he was in sixth form (actually I think he was the youngest ever RNR CO).

    Whilst not wishing to knock their achievements, I can't think of a single CO who I would describe as a exceptional leader. Even some of the D/DD's who I know now are good men but hardly inspiring. In fairness the RN has the same issue, good COs, bad COs, bland COs but there are also quite a few real characters who can inspire a crew - current CO of Lusty for example! (and no I am not onboard Lusty nor related to him)

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