W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at risk"

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by soleil, Aug 24, 2009.

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  1. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    The arguments for a contractor operated SAR service sound very laudable. I’m not sure they would necessarily take the risks that the Service crews take, though. That’s not a criticism of the Contractor’s crews but an observation of the Air Operator’s duty of care and conditions of insurance.

    I’m reminded of this event; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4999072.stm

  2. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Good atricle Sol, My thoughts on the subject of SAR are that the Harrier pilots. have been put in jeopardy !! by not having the correct SAR !!!protection, that they used to have, in the bad old days. Whilst they have been embarked on the Through decks. I am in no way having a pop at the SAR pilots and aircrewmen. Just the powers that be!!! Ps to P.O.L. seem to remember are no go envelope to engage rotars was 60knts, iirc where is Waspie?????? when you need him probably in the ACRB. :wink:
  3. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    The threat of closure of Chivenor SAR is nothing new. It seems to be a diarised agenda point every few years.

    I sometimes think these type of articles actually do good rather than bad as they tend to raise the awareness of the need for specific SAR needs.

    Regards the point of winching in certain wind speeds!!! Well the crews are similar to that when I was in the RN. Same faces etc. I forget the correct term, we used to call in 'confined areas'! in civvy aviation it refers to a much larger surface area.

    Forget Harriers ops Scouse. If I remember military SAR would still be provided in the event of a fast jet hitting the drink! (Not with standing the demise of the SAR Diver).

    The secret to engaging rotors in high winds is to wait until the wind drops, (remember wind speed is never constant), when the wind speed drops to within the envelope for rotor engagement, then off rotor brake and crank it up.

    At Prestwick when scrambled we used to start the rotors in the lee of a hanger in high winds, then taxi to dispersal for launch.

    Scouse, have you never had the ship run a up wind course to reduce the wind over the deck for rotor engagement. Quite common on Tribals. There are always ways to overcome the power of nature!!!!! :?
  4. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Hell No Waspie the skipper of the Danae was always trying to put the Wasp over the side, I was always nearly slipping out of the front seat whilst landing on!!! When they were doing OOW manouveres at the sharp end during flying stations :oops: :oops:
  5. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    That sounds a familiar tale.

    We declared a 'Mayday" trying to land. We hit MLA, (Minimum land on allowance for fuel), OOW up front still wouldn't turn the Ashanti onto a flying course.

    Fuel gauges dropping every minute, absolutely zip radio contact from the HC.

    Gauges hit 50Lbs remaining, (6 minutes flight time), Ian Georgeson declared a 'Mayday' on the Guard frequency. Hey Presto a flying course.

    Didn't have to turn the HP cock to off, the engine closed itself off just as the wheels hit the deck. (No bloody fuel). Now that was a wee bit too close.

    Same ship on a NGS sortie fed in our position as the gun target line and nigh on blew us out of the sky. Oh how I loved that ship.

    (I'm lying!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink: )
  6. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    The wonders of T/X on 243.0 MHz naughty naughty Waspie No 200lbs of fuel remaining. A Sea Vixen parted company with their occupants at Subic Bay/Cubi Point,having made the very same mistake. both ejected Safely :) :) :)
  7. Just for info there was a routine that the civvy ground crew used to do on the rigs in high wind conditions. But i dout they do it now.

    after the mob i went working heli-decks on the rigs off the shetlands 78/79. I was on a Semi-submersable called "Naudrog" Staioned in the Brent field. Her role was field emergencies, extra accomodation and spare heli-decks (of whick we had two) for aircraft. We had two hangers between the heli-decks housing 2 Bell 212,s and 3 Bolko 105,s. These aircraft were the buses of the faild running to and fro all day, plus any lacal sar work required.
    In high wind conditions and it was deemed necessary to launch an aircraft particularly the bell,s, the aircraft would be brought out of whichever end of there hanger which was leeward to the wind. Then as the A/C was starting to engage a ground crew member usually the tallest would hangon to the bladewhich was ahead of it. Then let go in co-ordination with the pilot and step back. This decreased the chance of Blade-Sail and Swoop whilst the blade was at low speed.
    It seemed to work but bloody risky, but that was then bet they dont do it now lol.
  8. At the next general election I shall look with relish at any party commiting themselves in their manifesto to abolishing and outlawing all cuts on the grounds that they are cruel and unnecessary - if we can afford to give nanny state handouts to bankers to the tune (so far) of £175Bn, we can afford SAR.

    Rupert Pissed-Off of Bromley
  9. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Scouse, at a recent brief on the new carriers the question of SAR cover was raised. We were told that there are NO plans to have SAR cover during Flying Stations, or a Ships Diver. Apparently the Seaboats' Crew will suffice. Unbelievable, eh?
  10. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    :roll: :roll: omg, more lives put at risk!! you could end up losing the seaboats crew as well in a bad weather ditching recovery of the Pilot/Observer. what is wrong with the grown ups in power???? today ps Their would be no chance of them manning the seaboat !!! :evil: :evil:
  11. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Thats the trouble Scouse, they haven't grown up!
  12. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    I thought the emergency operating handle for canopy release was UNDER the aircraft. Without a swimmer suitable trained then I would say lives are being put at risk!!!!

    Maybe someone Harrier trained could comment on the emergency release !

    How many of us can remember Helo ditching' that have gone awry due to sea boat crews attempting to attach floatation bags etc. Not intended as a slur on boat crews. They are not as aware of aircraft strong points, danger areas etc.

    Someone should start a 'Bring BAck the SAR Diver' campaign!!!!
  13. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    The newlyprivatised coastgaurd will be manned by former RAF and RN crews for the most part. They will be no less brave for being in the public sector surely?
    Rescuing foolish OAP's on Li- los off St Ives is not a role for the Armed Forces I suggest.
    So far as the RN's fighting aircraft going down the RAF maintains a first class Air Sea Rescue in home waters service . Abroad the carrier will be supported by an "angel" to pick up the downed crews with her onboard chopper. Sea boat's crews may never need be "away" again.
  14. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Military SAR crews that rescue poor grockles on Li-Lo's either do so as a side line to specific areas and operate only during the airfields operating periods OR They Operate under the auspices of the Dept. of Trade and Industry, (DTI), as such as funded and operate a 24 hour or dawn to dusk SAR service dependent on aircraft and crew limits.

    As far as being at sea, the RN carriers have always used a plane guard, frigate following astern to pick up downed crews or a plane guard in the form of a rotary wing hovering off the port quarter to again pick up down crews. Bog all change there.

    However for the frigate or surface ship to recover crew or aircraft then a sea boat would have to be used.
  15. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    :roll: :roll: :roll: ,Looks like my Halcyon Days in the FAA are long over. Buccaneer still airborne double ejection,Both Drogues extended , and the Pilot/observer Tucked up in the sick bay, on Hms Eagle having only dipped their toes,in the oggin :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
  16. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Those days are sadly gone Culdrose and Yeovilton are still there as, to get rid of them, making strategic sense . would result in thousands of civilian staff being made redundant in areas of high unempoyment. Not a vote-catcher.
  17. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    This lack of qualified diver swimmer extends just a little bit futher than SAR. Another told you so senario which will occur at some point is swimmer of the watch. at RAS station the dander is always there for someone to be carried away over the side. Swimmer of the watch usualy had to be either CD, SAR or Ships Diver Qualified for obvious reasons. if either ship was carrying a chopper it would be on immiediate stand-by if possible with an SAR Diver.
    Another example was one time at portland i was pulled of the firehouse to join Gold Rover for the day (RFA) and run the deck so helo,s could practice landings. On leaving harbour we were informed that as the ships starbord rig was able to fuel the royal yacht we were needed to do this as the yacht was passing portland. The chopper landings were cancelled, they jackstayed a drybag and fins over for me on the RFA, and a CD the Yacht got dressed on there side. Got back into portland that evening legless.
    HOWEVER, what do the poor sod,s have today No Ships Diver,s No Swimmer of the Watch, No SAR Diver,s and the CD if they have one might be a pongo from the joint clearance pool. Who i might add may have never been to sea and is probably prone to air sickness and Vertigo.
    Totally irresponsible by the powers, showing first class lack of forethought for the persons concerned. Have they heard of the aspect of "Losing ones corporate memory" any management course deals with this, plonkers
    But as Citizen Smith said "Come the Revolution".
    End Of.
  18. Re: W.M. News: "Search and Rescue cuts could put lives at ri

    Well, lets hope that the "angel" isn't too far away from Mother, because there will be no choppers onboard PoW or QE when JCA is embarked. Not enough room on deck due to this ridiculous rolling landing malarkey.

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