Veterans in Prison, etc

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by thingy, Sep 25, 2009.

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  1. Seems to be a sad fact of life,when the military have finished with you your on your own if you believe the media.

    However ther are many ex service organisations out there that can help people so I suppose if they want it its up to them to use it.
    Pride probably plays a great part in this and people dont always want to ask for help having come from a job where they have had position and status.

    I come across a few in my day to day job and when ever I can I put them in touch with help and see that they get it if they are willing to accept it.
     
  2. I listened to a discussion on the Jeremy Vine Show on Radio 2 today on this subject.It would seen that Servicemen/women are somehow brutalised as part of their basic training and then this is built upon when you are sent to join your Regiment or whatever.If you are unfortunate enough to witness the horrors of battle this further reinforces your ability to commit a violent act without regard for the likely outcome.If there are organisations that can help ex-service personel indealing with these demons maybe they should be co-opted and attendance to their courses made compulsory.
     
  3. Unfortunately there is a shortage of housing for the single persons. Many having left the services after a long period of service are used to having accommodation provided for them. On leaving they often become homeless. Social housing is given in the main to single mothers for the female of the species and ex convicts for males. So it's either get pregnant or commit crimes if you want a house.
    This situation is ridiculous, reward the foolish and criminal and punish the law abiding.
    Surely a point system should be introduced where ex service personal are given extra points for each year of service, with perhaps double points being awarded for service in war zones.
     
  4. With obvious exceptions, whose fault is that? We invariably know when our careers are due to end, why should special arrangements be made for those that can't get their act together whilst serving?

    I also don't really get the 'when the military have finished with you' mindset. It's a voluntary, generally well-paid (and pensioned) career. I was never given the impression that I would be 'looked after' from new entry to grave.

    Just how much is expected?
     
  5. I think it's more of how much is taken for granted as opposed to expected? Some service men and women do get used to having everything done for them, that it cripples their capacity to deal with civilian life.Some go straight from a home environment to the military and it's just a larger extension of family correct? So they never really deal with "real life issues when dealing with the civilian way of doing things", there is no Chief or DO to come to their aid in making a decision, unless they can think to actually ask for these services themselves....I know prior to release from the military, there are a lot of publications and pamphlets and workshops made available, but unless someone takes them by the hand and points them in the right direction, a lot will forgo it due to misplaced pride...or just unaware... :wink:
     
  6. I listened to radio 2 aswell.Some Knobber was saying this never happened after WWII. it did. Remember the old tramps (gentlemen of the road) couldn't intergate back to civiy life they may not have turned to crime but not far from it. They would just travel around the country most had a route, and would get meals and odd jobs form the locals because everone knew what they had been though. Not so today because of attitudes like Guzzler's -


    "With obvious exceptions, whose fault is that? We invariably know when our careers are due to end, why should special arrangements be made for those that can't get their act together whilst serving? "
     
  7. When a prisoner is released after serving his time (less loads off for being a good boy) he is automatically found a place to live.
    Now in my opinion why can't the same be done for ex servicemen?

    I for one know who I would rather have living next door to me.
     
  8. Yes AfterSSE, that's roughly what I meant - you just phrased it better.
     
  9. I see your point slim, and I'm certainly not trying to start a row, but I feel that comparing the treatment of ex-cons and former servicemen is something of a red herring.

    It would be more relevant to compare us with former teachers/nurses/zoo keepers etc as they are, like us, people who were in careers as opposed to malcontents of society.
     

  10. However those in the professions that you mention are not normally supplied with accommodation ( stand fast the nurses who may still live in nurses accommodation).
    Jack, Percy and our sideways walking brothers are frequently moved from base to base during their careers, not being able to put down roots (buy a home to live in) plus many will not have the funds to purchase even a small flat or apartment. Local authority housing is not cheap, but it is when compared to renting privately.
    When I left the RN I owned a house in Wiltshire, this was sold to partially fund the purchase of a house in Berkshire. The repayments were horrendous, but Berkshire was where the work was. I was lucky that I had a house already, I would never have been able to purchase otherwise, and no way would the council have housed me and my family.
     
  11. That's unfair. You are either ignoring or twisting my words.

    My comment 'with obvious exceptions' was referring to the (sadly increasing) number of service personnel who have paid a huge price for their service. I do not for one minute suggest that they should not receive all the assistance the state can give.

    During my 25 years service I, like many of my peers in the good old Cold War days, experienced little which sets me apart from my civilian counterparts in my opinion. I have a fine pension and some great memories - that'll do me.

    Don't accuse me of having an attitude - it's an opinion. I have no desire to wind people up on this, it's a serious matter, but I think my view is entirely valid.
     
  12. Been down this thread before, also on arrse. I've banged 'em up with great reluctance . I must state very few R.N. personnel although there was a two and a half ringer and a townie P.O. that stand out in the memory banks. but although I hate to say it;- its true;- lots of Army. I cannot recall any R.A.F.bods and the only booties I recall were with me on the staff. I do not pretend to know the reasons just stating things as I recall them from my time in the Prison Service.
     
  13. True slim, and fair comment.

    Perhaps I've just been lucky due to my personal circumstances and geographical location.
     
  14. Its not people just leaving the mob. Its mainly squadies leaving after active service. The yanks have got it right, back of a tour they are all interveiwed by a shrink and are not allowed to leave until the doc is happy with them. The Brits on the otherhand get off in Brize put in a hanger lined up and asked if anyone wants to see a shrink take one step forward. Its all bravardo so one moves, they then all go on leave without any coping methods to prevent PTSD setting in except booze and/or anger.
     
  15. Some have a greater problem than most with integrating back into civilian life and need some help.
    Wonder if it would be feasible for service charities to build some bedsit accomodation for those with problems?
    This would be for ex service only and may help some to integrate back into society while still having contact with their peers.
     
  16. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    Leaving the forces as a young man can be very traumatic, I doubt that many of the banged up ex squaddies are senior rates or married. SNCO's have been in the system longer and know how it works, they also are more aware of what help and networks are available. Your average young thruster has just spent the last 4 or 5 years without a care in the world, meals and accom provided, p1ssing it against the wall and fighting for queen and country with his oppos, he is somebody.

    That all changes when he leaves. Pride, ignorance, bravado all play there part in the downfall. I suppose 50 years ago things like ex servicemens clubs and the legion played their part, just look at an area like Somerset and the pub skittle league it's dominated with team names like "returned servicemen". It was a way for ex forces personnel to get together, have a chat and support each other. That no longer exists for the young thruster.
     
  17. When I left the mob after only 7 years I found it quite traumatic to adjust at first having joined up at 15 straight from school.
    it took a while getting used to civilian ways etc and I missed the comradeship I once had.(Its never quite the same on the outside unless you work with ex service bods)
    It took me about 2 years to finally settle in,although at one point I was going to rejoin but changed my mind.

    I cant imagine what it must be like for those who do longer service but if you have a trade etc there are plenty of companies willing to take you on or so Im informed due to your experience and skills.

    Sadly some people slip through the net whether its due to themselves or the system that is in place.
    There is probably a need forbetter understanding of peoples needs post service life in relation to each individuals circumstances.
    The yanks seem very good at that and have probably learned lessons post Vietnam.
    In the ambulance service where I work we are more aware now of dealing with staff after traumatic jobs and kick the macho attitude into touch and ensure people get help and support.
    Unfortunately you cant force peope to accept help but you can ensure its there if they need it,we just need to be able to recognise the warning signs.
     
  18. If you want to know what's wrong with this country you only have to read the Sun today,page nine shows a man stabbing another 5 times on a bus after a trivial row.
    The victim had life threatening injuries but the Crown Prosecutor decided that it was not attempted murder just GBH! sentence? 3 years nine months,out in less than two years,paroled after one year! it stinks and so does this countries justice system.
    I don't blame the rank and file Police but I do blame these fast tracked university promotions that lead to senior rank with bare experience of the streets.

    On the other hand,Berwick Town hall today had a "Help the Heroes"raffle in the Town hall,various stalls doing events,I could not get up the steps to make a donation!the place was heaving and I felt proud we are,unlike the Government,supporting our heroes.

    We are deep in the crap and how come Milliband [specs from Thunderbirds] is saying military action against Iran is possibility,is he crazy?we haven't enough troops to sort out the battles they are fighting.

    I also believe that the fact our prisons are being jammed with ex-servicemen is a disgrace,even if we have to create a civil defence force like the Italian Carabineri or the USA National Guard where troops are based in town barracks to quell civil disturbances,seems the way to go for our ex-servicemen/women.
    Sorts out the yobs and minor civil disturbances,lets the police deal with real crime and above all gets rid of these plastic police who are a joke.
    Rant over but some points may be valid.
    Get the exe servicemen a worthwhile career like above,or camps to train youngsters,anything but prison.how shortsighted have we become?
     
  19. I wouldnt be suprised if many of the ex servicemen mentioned in these statistics are the "booted out during phase 1 week1 " category, and should more accurately be refered to as failed servicemen.
    That said, a friend of mine came perilously close to ending up on the streets after a medical discharge from the corps. Booties have difficulty asking for help even when they need it(not a criticism!)
    I also had another mate, who left just after me, who managed to get to the start of his GRT without getting around to writing his CV. His job before leaving?
    Full time Do in Drake!
     

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