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US soldier on killing spree in Afghanistan.

finknottle

Banned
First the Qur'an burning now this from our allies, the sooner we withdraw our troops from there the better. For starters it is not the job of our Armed Forces to ensure that Afghan girls go to school. Then we have Karzai with elections coming up signing the 'Shia Personal Law' that is said to include provisions that require a woman to ask permission to leave the house except on urgent business, a duty to "make herself up" or "dress up" for her husband when demanded, and a duty not to refuse sex when her husband wants it. It is a medieval tribal country and no matter how long we stay there it will not change, we cannot impose a western style democracy on such a country.

This trotted out reason for us staying the distance that our presence there keeps our street safer does not wash with me.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Truth be told Finks, I don't think that "keeps our street's safer" waffle washes with anyone apart from the paranoid.
 

finknottle

Banned
Truth be told Finks, I don't think that "keeps our street's safer" waffle washes with anyone apart from the paranoid.

Aye, I very much doubt if the waffle peddlers (MP's) believe it either. As the lady on question time pointed out last week, if that was the case we should be invading Pakistan.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Did not one Brit. leave base a while back, in the middle of the night looking for a piece of kit he'd lost? Turned up dead I think.
 

Waspie

War Hero
The first question that comes to my mind is ... How did a soldier leave a camp in Afghanistan, on his own, with a weapon, at 3am? You would never get out of a UK PB/MOB in AFG on your own, you'd be stopped and if necessary arrested to stop you going out, for your own safety!

Serious questions need to be asked, on many levels, around this incident.

Ain't you seen Hurt Locker? If hollywood actors can do I'm sure the real thing can!!!!
 
I think Afghanistan and the decision to 'invade ' the place was one big lie.
Apart from the fact that the taliban were initially trained and supplied with arms by the good ol boys to do damage to a certain large country at that time installed to help 'educate and possibly discard 'the 13th century tribal customs and poppy growing.

Kipling did some good poems and stories about the place
nothing changed its still the same and poppy production has increased !!

Leave them to live as they always have --- eventually they will sort themselves out.
As for the western influences --well its FA to do with us -let the human rights guys go in and talk to them !!:angel7:
 

broadside

War Hero
First the Qur'an burning now this from our allies, the sooner we withdraw our troops from there the better. For starters it is not the job of our Armed Forces to ensure that Afghan girls go to school. Then we have Karzai with elections coming up signing the 'Shia Personal Law' that is said to include provisions that require a woman to ask permission to leave the house except on urgent business, a duty to "make herself up" or "dress up" for her husband when demanded, and a duty not to refuse sex when her husband wants it. It is a medieval tribal country and no matter how long we stay there it will not change, we cannot impose a western style democracy on such a country.

This trotted out reason for us staying the distance that our presence there keeps our street safer does not wash with me.

Very true - there isn't much left in the argument any more is there since bits of it keep getting ripped out left right and centre.

One angle being trotted out quite a bit in various interviews nowadays seems to be that the hard work has already been done and the Taliban will find it very difficult to re-establish their presence in the face of a massive increase in education (boys and girls) which has led to higher rates of literacy, greater social awareness and the strong likelihood that the "new generations" will not stand for the Taliban ethos again.


Me, I just think that's a load of bollocks!
 

flymo

War Hero
I think Afghanistan and the decision to 'invade ' the place was one big lie.
Apart from the fact that the taliban were initially trained and supplied with arms by the good ol boys to do damage to a certain large country at that time installed to help 'educate and possibly discard 'the 13th century tribal customs and poppy growing.

Kipling did some good poems and stories about the place
nothing changed its still the same and poppy production has increased !!

Leave them to live as they always have --- eventually they will sort themselves out.
As for the western influences --well its FA to do with us -let the human rights guys go in and talk to them !!:angel7:

Apart from our true leaders who have an interest in the TAPI gas pipeline and the minerals still waiting to be excavated ...
 

finknottle

Banned
The damage the Americans have done is incalculable; I would like to see the soldier responsible handed over to the Afghan authorities. This shocking incident reminds me of the 1968 Mei Lai massacre during the Viet-Nam war.
 

broadside

War Hero
The damage the Americans have done is incalculable; I would like to see the soldier responsible handed over to the Afghan authorities. This shocking incident reminds me of the 1968 Mei Lai massacre during the Viet-Nam war.

Much as you may like to see it, such a decision would be a disastrous precedent to set. Discipline and justice has to be meted out in accordance with the disciplinary and judicial code under which the individual signed up to unless there is some higher authority, duly established and with appropriate superior powers (Nuremburg or ICC come immediately to mind). The idea of handing him over to the jurisdiction of another nation (albeit a partner nation in this instance) is as repulsive as the act he committed (IMHO)
 

flymo

War Hero
IIRC, some American soldiers murdered British civilians during WWII. I wonder if they were handed over. If so, surely the same can be done in this instance. He gets punished by the local authorities and then he comes back to base and get his "consequentials" meted out by the military authorities ... assuming that anything came back through the main gate ...
 

EarlyChop

War Hero
I was wondering about his justification for his actions.

Do you think he knew his actions might bring an earlier withdrawal from afgan? Maybe it was an attempt to save lives fuelled by a touch of madness and some of the things he has seen.

Maybe he was just a bit mad.
 

finknottle

Banned
Much as you may like to see it, such a decision would be a disastrous precedent to set. Discipline and justice has to be meted out in accordance with the disciplinary and judicial code under which the individual signed up to unless there is some higher authority, duly established and with appropriate superior powers (Nuremburg or ICC come immediately to mind). The idea of handing him over to the jurisdiction of another nation (albeit a partner nation in this instance) is as repulsive as the act he committed (IMHO)

I will have to disagree with you broadside, he committed mass murder in a foreign country and IMO regardless of the fact that he is a serving member of US Forces he should be handed over to the Afghan justice system.
 

labrum

War Hero
Hand him over? On the one hand Finks you tell us they are a medieval nation and then you want to offer somebody subject to military law up to them.

Only 2 possibilities, he was fully aware of and in control of his actions or he completely 'lost it'. If he was your son you'd want him medically assessed and the court to consider any medical findings; that would not happen in an Afghan court.
 

labrum

War Hero
A report on BBC states that he was in his 30s, multiple tours of Iraq but on his first tour of Afghanistan.
 
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