letthecatoutofthebag
Badgeman

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letthecatoutofthebag said:Just found ths thread on ARRSE www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/...95#1069901 about a US Soldier who refused to follow an order to deploy to Iraq, claiming the war is illegal.
A RAF Officer was court martialled about a year and a half ago in similar circumstances. I think he was dismissed from the service. No matter what you say about the initial actions in Iraq (i.e. the actions to overthrow Saddam and the Ba'ath Party) the US and UK are currently in Iraq at the inviation of the Iraq Government and as such the current war is therefore legal - this was the crux of the case against the RAF Officer.
If this US Officer had concerns about the war, he should have resigned long ago and not waited for an order to proceed to Iraq. I think his actions are disgraceful and an insult to those currently fighting in Iraq. I hope he is court martialled and duly punsihed
letthecatoutofthebag said:Just found ths thread on ARRSE
A RAF Officer was court martialled about a year and a half ago in similar circumstances. I think he was dismissed from the service. No matter what you say about the initial actions in Iraq (i.e. the actions to overthrow Saddam and the Ba'ath Party) the US and UK are currently in Iraq at the inviation of the Iraq Government and as such the current war is therefore legal - this was the crux of the case against the RAF Officer.
If this US Officer had concerns about the war, he should have resigned long ago and not waited for an order to proceed to Iraq.
letthecatoutofthebag said:[quote="Bergen]Well you got this one totally wrong.
RM
letthecatoutofthebag said:Just found ths thread on ARRSE http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=57195.html about a US Soldier who refused to follow an order to deploy to Iraq, claiming the war is illegal.
A RAF Officer was court martialled about a year and a half ago in similar circumstances. I think he was dismissed from the service. No matter what you say about the initial actions in Iraq (i.e. the actions to overthrow Saddam and the Ba'ath Party) the US and UK are currently in Iraq at the inviation of the Iraq Government and as such the current war is therefore legal - this was the crux of the case against the RAF Officer.
If this US Officer had concerns about the war, he should have resigned long ago and not waited for an order to proceed to Iraq. I think his actions are disgraceful and an insult to those currently fighting in Iraq. I hope he is court martialled and duly punsihed
sgtpepperband said:Double his pay and give him a Make & Mend!
:lol:
letthecatoutofthebag said:Bergen said:whether you were serious in your statement that this war is now legal because the USA and UK are now in Iraq at the invitation of the Iraq government.
I am fairly serious as this was part of the prosecution case at the CM of the RAF Officer. Not too long after the CM I spoke with a RN Cdr Barrister who explained the case in these relatively simple terms.
The case of Norway is a bit disingenuous. Iraq - and its current government - are recognised by the UN and other nations as a democratic country and its government is therefore legal and the US/UK forces there are (technically at leasy) at its request. The Quisiling government in Norway never received such recognition - other than by Germany and its allies - and therefore remained illegal and the Nazi occupation forces remained illegal.
Yes its a technical point, but its a point that proved the RAF Officer guilty (incidently he had already done tours in Iraq and had been, I beieve, there in 2003 as part of the initial invasion).
All of our troops are obliged to carry out legal orders. If he or she is convinved that an order is illegal then he is duty bound to disobey that order. Making a show of refusing to go to Iraq in the way this Officer did is mere theatrics. If he was not happy with the war in Iraq that was being fought in his name and by his comrades he should have resigned his commission long ago. By waiting until his unit was ordered to go he let down is oppos - this is reprehensible.
A few facts;
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
Vesper said:War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
Full version can be found here http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Regards, :neutral:
~Vesper
Seadog said:Bergen asked
A few facts;
Assuming the UCMJ isn't in your area of expertise Bergen, got a source, especially since the Court Martial is pending?