US Congress...........

#1
reject the US Government's £700 billion bail-out.

Don't know about the ramifications of this but it doesn't sound good. Wall Street crashed 5 points within minutes of the announcement.
 
#2
Tartan_Army_Sailor said:
reject the US Government's £700 billion bail-out.

Don't know about the ramifications of this but it doesn't sound good. Wall Street crashed 5 points within minutes of the announcement.
The basic ramification is simple. The shit is about to hit the fan. Secure for bad weather :thumright:

RM
 
#4
higthepig said:
Different to the News I saw on telly to-night.
I didn't watch TV; I was too busy trying to move money from Wachovia Bank which is just collapsing to somewhere safer. Slightly complicated by the fact that I had just moved to Wachovia from Washington Mutual which went belly-up last week. It's like a slow-motion train wreck Higgy but then you know that better than me... having lived through the Great Depression :bball:

RM :thumright:
 
#8
It's gonna start rainin' men on Wall Street!

One difference from 1929 - back then, only a minority had anything to do with shares. Nowadays, between ISAs, PEPs, and pension funds, more are directly exposed.

If you've got big cojones, now is the time to buy. If you've anything left in the kitty, that is.
 
#9
It's interesting that the bankers moaned about the Federal government until they bleated about needing state subsidies to keep themselves (ie their pension plans) afloat.

If Gordon Broon can fritter £1T insulating the *******... oops, I meant bankers... in the UK from THEIR decisions, why can't he find £2 billion to provide pensions for ex-servicemen who didn't qualify for a pension, or more money to compensate injured service personnel?
 
#10
To make matters worse they will go hat in hand to the Chinese again to borrow against the debt, problem with that is eventually the US of A is going to piss of the Chinese and they will call in their markers and voila US of A goes bankrupt... :hockey:
 
#11
I think they should start rounding up the mortguage dealers ,estate agents
and money lenders who made a lot of money from obtaining loans etc
for people who basically couldn't afford to pay the loan back.

Apart from that --100% mortguages were a bad loan anyway-- the borrower couldn't give a toss regarding paying the debt -it wasn't any of his money to start with!
My first mortguage was 60% with my 40% up front first !!

And Credit cards -------- Giving 20 year olds a credit limit of £10k
and then wondering why the debt doesn't get repaid

FFS bring back the Conservatives

:nemo: :nemo:
 
#12
thingy said:
It's interesting that the bankers moaned about the Federal government until they bleated about needing state subsidies to keep themselves (ie their pension plans) afloat.

If Gordon Broon can fritter £1T insulating the *******... oops, I meant bankers... in the UK from THEIR decisions, why can't he find £2 billion to provide pensions for ex-servicemen who didn't qualify for a pension, or more money to compensate injured service personnel?
Not much call for Ex MPs to act as 'Consultants' or 'Directors' with nice pay checks for very little effort for Ex-Servicemans organisations may have something to do with it. :rambo:
 
#13
Fascinating that the US Congress rejected the safety net measures because they were "un American" and too close to Socialism.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080930.RBANKSMAIN30PU/TPStory/International

There is a particular aspect of this that, to me, speaks volumes;

The Jewish New Year holiday of Rosh Hashanah means the House can't take another vote until Thursday at the earliest.
Little wonder that the Septics can't get on very well with their rag-headed fellow humans.
 
#14
Greenie said:
I think they should start rounding up the mortguage dealers ,estate agents


Oi, I am a Realtor/Estate agent here in Florida and I resent that remark.

If you want to pay too much for a house, your credits crap and you over borrow/extend yourself, aint my fault
 
#15
A few thoughts from a really smart guy. Things are a little more complicated by the fact that it is election year here in the USA and the Rethuglicans are running in panic mode:-

[align=center]----------------------------------------------------------------------------[/align]

The deregulation of market systems which, in part, led to the Globalisation of Capitalism, has resulted in an unprecedented transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the USA, because it has enabled Global capital to treat American workers increasingly in the same way that they have always treated workers in the third world. The growth in efficiency of production systems means there will always be more workers than there is productive work to do, and thus by the laws of free market supply and demand - the price of labour goes down, and down - until it goes down so low that labour is no longer able to sustain itself - and poverty, homelessness, illness, broken families and political destabilisation results.

Over the last 30 years - despite huge growth in GNP, virtually all the incremental wealth that has been generated in the US has gone to the top 0.1% of the population - mainly those helping to run the Global economy. And I say Global - not American - economy advisedly, because big money has no national loyalties - it flows where the further growth potential lies, usually in "third world" markets, and this process is then wrapped in an American flag as part of the Branding exercise to make the other 99.9% of Americans think that this is all being done for their benefit.

The consequence of this enormous transfer of incremental wealth from the poor to the rich is that virtually all growth in living standards in the past 30 years for the 99.9% has been funded by debt, and by increasingly unsustainable levels of debt at that - so much so that it has masked the enormity of what has really being going on: US capital has gone Global, and the USA itself has increasingly only remain solvent because of huge inflows of cash from the rest of the world in the form of both public and private debt - a debt which has been increasingly secured against hugely over-priced assets.

The consequence of this whole pyramid selling or Ponzi scheme falling apart is that the rest of the world will cease to puts its money into Dollars, or at least charge exorbitant interest rates for doing so, and the US$ will lose its status as the world reserve currency. The money and jobs which have already left the USA aren't coming back, and thus we have the Wall Street bail-out - where already impoverished and over-indebted US taxpayers are expected to bail-out the global bankers and neo-conservative market deregulators who brought you to this wonderful state of affairs.

[align=center]---------------------------------------------------------------------[/align]


RM
 
#17
Here's why many Americans are having a tough time digesting spending $700-billion in tax money to prevent an economic disaster triggered by bad mortgages and greed.

Washington Mutual, the giant lender considered by many to be a poster child for making big profits on wild mortgage lending, was seized by federal regulators Thursday night and immediately sold to J.P. Morgan Chase. It was easily the largest bank failure in American history and only the latest example of the economic instability gripping the country.

The company's chief executive, Alan H. Fishman, had been on the job for less than three weeks. He was on a plane flying from New York to Seattle when the deal was arranged, according to the New York Times.

But don't cry for Fishman. Analysts say he is eligible for $11.6-million in cash severance. And he can keep his $7.5-million signing bonus.

How's that compare to your severance and signing bonus?

It's hard for most Americans to grasp the size and importance of the Bush administration's proposed bailout, even if urgent action is necessary to free up credit and protect the mortgages, businesses and retirement accounts for everyone who has managed their own affairs responsibly. But everyone gets this math: less than three weeks of work at a failing savings and loan for more than $19-million.

That is outrageous — and it explains why so many are so mad.
 
#18
cornishgolfer said:
Here's why many Americans are having a tough time digesting spending $700-billion in tax money to prevent an economic disaster triggered by bad mortgages and greed.

Washington Mutual, the giant lender considered by many to be a poster child for making big profits on wild mortgage lending, was seized by federal regulators Thursday night and immediately sold to J.P. Morgan Chase. It was easily the largest bank failure in American history and only the latest example of the economic instability gripping the country.

The company's chief executive, Alan H. Fishman, had been on the job for less than three weeks. He was on a plane flying from New York to Seattle when the deal was arranged, according to the New York Times.

But don't cry for Fishman. Analysts say he is eligible for $11.6-million in cash severance. And he can keep his $7.5-million signing bonus.

How's that compare to your severance and signing bonus?

It's hard for most Americans to grasp the size and importance of the Bush administration's proposed bailout, even if urgent action is necessary to free up credit and protect the mortgages, businesses and retirement accounts for everyone who has managed their own affairs responsibly. But everyone gets this math: less than three weeks of work at a failing savings and loan for more than $19-million.

That is outrageous — and it explains why so many are so mad.
But yet every time someone like me (Socialist Canadian from Communistic like Canada) say's something about the greed in the USA, someone always replies "well it's the American way, it's what Capitalism is all about son, we are all entitled to make as much as we possibly can (get away with)", so I say you reap what you sow, and as long as the feds kept turning a blind eye (wonder how many congressmen and senators are feeding from the same troughs) as they have been, then who's really to blame, those that did the deed or those that could have stepped in but chose not to...

There is a time for regulation and a time for non regulation, for me regulation is required where the tax payer's protection is paramount.(Those that are on the low end of the economic wage scales).

As these Banks and Mortgage Companies go hat in hand begging to be saved,who is going to help those people who blindly bought over valued properties....hmmmmm both are to blame and both should suffer, the consumer because they saw a "good deal" (low interest type mortgages or lax credit requirements) and leaped at the chance (slogan "sucker born every minute" comes to mind).

Bottom line is the "Tax Payer" should not bail these people out unless there is an "iron clad guarantee" from the Bank or Mortgage Company that the "Loan" will be paid back at 10 or 15% interest and that the revenue earned from that interest goes to pay down the National Debt, I bet that is what Joe Q is waiting to hear from the Feds...(When pigs fly)
 

(granny)

Banned
Book Reviewer
#19
Can anyone explain to me, in simple terms please, if the economy is in difficulty because banks are nervous about lending money to each other, do we presume that they HAVE got money to lend. In which case whats the problem? If they keep their own money they don't need to borrow!! Or am I being a bit simplistic?
 
#20
cornishgolfer said:
Here's why many Americans are having a tough time digesting spending $700-billion in tax money to prevent an economic disaster triggered by bad mortgages and greed.

Washington Mutual, the giant lender considered by many to be a poster child for making big profits on wild mortgage lending, was seized by federal regulators Thursday night and immediately sold to J.P. Morgan Chase. It was easily the largest bank failure in American history and only the latest example of the economic instability gripping the country.

The company's chief executive, Alan H. Fishman, had been on the job for less than three weeks. He was on a plane flying from New York to Seattle when the deal was arranged, according to the New York Times.

But don't cry for Fishman. Analysts say he is eligible for $11.6-million in cash severance. And he can keep his $7.5-million signing bonus.

How's that compare to your severance and signing bonus?

It's hard for most Americans to grasp the size and importance of the Bush administration's proposed bailout, even if urgent action is necessary to free up credit and protect the mortgages, businesses and retirement accounts for everyone who has managed their own affairs responsibly. But everyone gets this math: less than three weeks of work at a failing savings and loan for more than $19-million.

That is outrageous — and it explains why so many are so mad.
You're only scratching the surface of the greed and corruption. Read this extract from the New York Times and then note that the Henry M. Paulson at Goldman-Sachs is the same Hank Paulson who is now US Secretary of the Treasury and who has his hand out for $700,000,000,000. What is not mentioned is that by taking the low-paid job with the US Gubmint he has been able to avoid $200 million in personal tax liabilities...go figure:-

NYT

Goldman Sachs already has the highest-paid chief executive on Wall Street. Now, even his lieutenants make more than nearly all other C.E.O.’s on the Street.

The investment bank paid its two co-presidents, Gary D. Cohn and Jon Winkelried, bonuses of about $52.5 million each for the 2006 fiscal year, the firm said in a regulatory filing yesterday. Added to their $600,000 salaries, Mr. Cohn and Mr. Winkelried made nearly $53 million.

In the same report, Goldman reiterated that it paid its chairman and chief executive, Lloyd C. Blankfein, a $53.4 million bonus, shattering the record for a Wall Street chief executive set by his predecessor, Henry M. Paulson Jr. The firm gave John S. Weinberg, a vice chairman and co-head of investment banking, a $31.5 million bonus.

Goldman also paid Mr. Paulson, now the Treasury secretary, $110 million to cash out his outstanding stock options and restricted stock.

The disclosure further illustrates just how profitable last year was for Wall Street’s top investment banks, Goldman in particular. The firm reported a record profit of $9.5 billion for 2006, and its stock price rose 56 percent.

RM :thumright:
 
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