Midshipmen, like other subordinate officers are appointed, not commissioned. Commissions are only given out at substantive SLt rank and above. Ref BR 8373.
yeo_yeo said:So my original question stands, are they held to the same standards and training levels as that of the RNR?
yeo_yeo said:So my original question stands, are they held to the same standards and training levels as that of the RNR?.
its my understanding that Naval officers are not commissioned at all. They are "appointed"
fangita said:Sorry Rincewind shippers - you're wrong (and right!). You have got the mutually exclusive terms "drafting" (ratings xmt WOs) and "appointing" (officers + WOs) which deal with which job you do when, mixed up with the terms for being a given the honour of a job in HM Forces. This is "commisioned" (RN and RNR officers of SLts and above) and "warranted" (WO1s and Midshipmen). Hence the term CW Candidate standing for "Commission or Warrant" candidate, depending on age...
(following lists of commissioned and warrant ranks)
3. Officers appointed by Orders.- Officers shall be promoted or nominated to all other ranks by order of the Admiralty, or, in the case of Midshipmen and Clerks, by order of their Captains. Except as specified in footnote, commissions will not be issued to officers on promotion to such ranks, but their promotion will be notified to them by the Admiralty, and published in the " London Gazette." See 228 (Appointment of other Officers).
Sorry Rincewind shippers - you're wrong (and right!). You have got the mutually exclusive terms "drafting" (ratings xmt WOs) and "appointing" (officers + WOs) which deal with which job you do when, mixed up with the terms for being a given the honour of a job in HM Forces. This is "commisioned" (RN and RNR officers of SLts and above) and "warranted" (WO1s and Midshipmen). Hence the term CW Candidate standing for "Commission or Warrant" candidate, depending on age
Jim30 said:Lets see, ex URNU, ex URNU TO and RNR now. I think I'm entitled to state my opinion on the URNU.
In one URNU I know, of 50 students on the books, maybe 20 attended on a good night. Meanwhile some would attend for deployment or the fun stuff. Most weren't particularly good, despite endless efforts to try and get them to the right standard. They were a mess, more concerned with beer than they were with basic skills. Deployment was a case of "alongside ASAP then lets do a run ashore". Drill nights were much the same. As for parades, don't make me laugh. They turned up, couldnt march, looked gash and were frankly a waste of space.
Of the 750 students, I'd suggest maybe 400 are regular attenders, of whom maybe 100 might join the RN. The rest are along for a jolly. Personally I'd scrap the pay element and see how many we keep.
The URNU scheme is a waste of resources in its current form. Either turn it into a NROTC or scrap it completely. At the moment though I am very hacked off at seeing the little scrotes getting "RNR" on their ID card. They have no idea how to act like an officer (if only because the BRNC driven syllabus doesn't really cover it). They are fundamentally cadets, their staff cannot be mobilised and at the end of the day, to call that bunch of scruffs "RNR" is an insult to the REAL RNR who for the most part are well trained individuals who have a very real liability to go to deployments (as I've done).
letthecatoutofthebag said:A few points about URNUs and URNU Midshipmen:
1. URNU Mids are subject to the NDA when wearing uniform and engaged on URNU business; they are subject to all the rules and regulations that RN and RNR personnel are. That said, it would be difficult if not impossible to troop a Mid. Should an UNRU Mid make a significant breach of the NDA (or indeed the Code of Social Conduct) they would probably be asked to leave their Unit. If the offence was also an offence against Civil Law - or was something the SIB would want to know about - I would imagine the civilian police would get involved.
2. Regardless of what people think, the UNRU is NOT R NOT a recruiting organisation. I know a number of recent former UNRU COs and each and every one stresses this to everyone they meet. It is true that a large number of URNU Students do go through BRNC but they are not forced into this and they do not get lectured about careers. The OTC (and until recently the UAS) are recruiting organisations and almost force their cadets to join the Army or TA. However, URNUs tend to get a greater pecentage of their students joining the RN or RNR and it almost appears that by not forcing the possibility of a future career in the Andrew they do a better job of recruiting that the other university service organisations.
3. URNUs do cover leadership and some NMT. They are limited by their resources and H&S and can not do PLTs but they do have a leadership programme (based on BRNC's syllabus) and conduct a number of classroom based leadership exercises not disimilar to those conducted at the AIB. URNU Mids don't really need to know too much marching and drill - provided they can stand at attention and salute properly. Any more is a bit pointless and detracts from the overall aims of the URNU. That said, most if not all URNUs, take part in some form of remembrance parade and do themselves proud.
There does appear to be a bit of bitterness between some RNR personnel and the URNU organisation and vice versa. This is all a bit pointless as we all should be working for the same ultimate aim. The RNR has its role and the URNU has its own different aims and objectives. The two can complement each other and this should become greater following 2SLs Regional Coherency study. No organisation is perfect and we should all stop sniping at each other over some perceived petty jealousies.
jackdanielsaddict said:Why don't you grow up. Quite frankly you could be talking about a lot of RNR officers in that statement of not knowing how to act as officers, last time I looked at the figures, the RNR had a lot less regular attenders than the URNU. And I understand that the RNR has a massive recruitment problem. A lot of the RNR take RN life too seriously to the point that they think they're special because they put on a uniform once a week and forget the fact they they are there as public servants. Of course there are notible exceptions and when they are called up and serve, whilst I don't believe they are as much value as someone who does the job on a daily basis, some have been exceptional individuals. Personally, I think the resources which are plowed into the RNR so they can have their jollies and then quit when they get called up are a waste of money.