URNU V's RNR

Does anyone else out there wonder why the URNU units get the P2000's and the RNR have to make do with the odd day trip arount the Isle Of Wight on a sweeper.

Please do not interpret this a critisism of the URNU - far from it! i just wonder who they call first when the proverbial hits the fan and in light of that - who requires the most hands on training.

We all know that the RNR had sweepers until about 94' but since they've gone very little has been done to fill the gap left by their removal.a couple of sweepers dotted arount the country would do wonders for experience values. The weekends on the sweepers are good and the RN lads on board are (Mostly) first class ut surley more training value would be gained by a mostly RNR crewed ship topped up with RN instructors.

i know its not going to happen but it surley a topic for conversation?

 

maybe something to do with training the reservists in skills needed for wartime, ie control of shipping, media ops, extra comms etc as the RN should be able to handle the warship side of it having had the continuous practice...

as far as URNUs are cocnerned, i know they're not a recruiting tool, but do you really believe that?!

 

i dont recall saying that they are a recruiting tool? But having said that the whole reason the URNU is there is to try to intice people into the RN?

In response to the training that the RNR are given - why do they bother training us in seamanship if we are not required to do it. Apprently the bread and butter of GSSR is seamanship and GSSR? I'd much rather do a bit of flag waving anyday!

 

Correction - bread and butter is seamanship and SPO - Not GSSR!

 

URNU's are not primarily a recruiting tool for BRNC, not as much as the Army use their Uni OCs.

It is there in the belief that these bright young things from University will be the movers and shakers of the future, the captains of industry, politicians, leaders of Great Britain Plc and that their experience in the URNU will leave them thinking warmly about the RN - thus endorse giving it more money!

That was the thinking - but maybe today's graduates are not the same. Not many captains of industry have degrees in Media from the University Redrickshire? So perhaps the days of the URNU for this reason alone are numbered? Also these days, how many more BRNC entrants already have a first degree!!!

I think the URNU has a valid place but whether it requires so much spending on it as compared to the RNR who are constantly beleaguered by financial restraints. Watch out for the hitchikers on the M3 as their RTU has run of money for travel! This is a nonsense which will soon gain higher profile no doubt.

 

Perhaps we should use them more, let the use of the P2000s come off their budget and bundle our guys on.

How much overlap/contact is there between the OTC and the TA? Any pongos out there care to enlighten me?

M(R)

 

Thinking back to the "dark days" of 10MCM when the P2000s were brand spanking new (and stank of fibreglass resin) they used to be attached to the STCs to supplement the MSFs. Being realistic, the RNR could easily supply "obedient ballast" to get some experience on an afloat platform, however, their CIS fit is limited, the stores uplift capability is limited, they probably don't hold SA80s and they have no sickbay facilities so the RNR rating of today would gain little training value from them

 

Hey there, I think the URNU's are a fantastic organisation - mainly because I was one of many who had spent 3 fun years drinking our way around the UK coastline... ahem learning seamanship skills! All round great stuff, the RNR is just as fun, apart from the fact I have a day job to contend with and student loans to pay off so its all a bit more real!

Alot of my year were keen to sign up and did so with great enthusiasm... there are always contentious views as to the value of such an organisation! It certainly gave an excellent grounding block to people not joining regulars, but as mentioned earlier, few were keen to continue RNR, once they heard the streets are paved with gold in London graduate jobs! Anyway, its interesting reading... tally ho!

Grace

 

I honestly think that lots of the URNU students I have seen WILL be the "movers and shakers" of the future. These are bright, motivated young people, who can juggle a real time commitment with a busy degree, and URNU alumni already fill some pretty punchy jobs in the City, media and commerce. In fact, to my eyes, the key phrase in the URNU mission statement is "future opinion formers", and perhaps we should be concentrating on teachers rather than future politicians.

As an aside, most of the URNUs are not at Spunkbridge Poly, but cover prestigious and important Universities (and a few crap ones) including Oxford, Cambridge, Bristol, London, Durham, Glasgow, Manchester etc (full list on the RN webshite). Yes, about 10% of the URNU intake apply for the RN but surely that's a good thing - an added bonus in fact - as let's face it, the RN is rubbish at PR and recruiting.

Notwithstanding the RNR financial constraints, you are utterly mistaken about the URNU funding. The entire organisation is funded by BRNC Dartmouth, out of the BRNC budget, and comes to about £3 million a year, including the salaries (and NI contributions) of the 14 Ship's Companies, 14 office staff (Coxswain + Secretary) and 8 HQ staff. For the last 4 years, Dartmouth has made savage cuts to the URNU budget in order to pay for various BRNC projects (including the huge 42" plasma TV screens dotted around the college that have replaced Daily Order bits of A4), including last year a 36% cut in all travel and subsistence budgets.

My last point, and one that was ignored when I brought it up on a previous posting, is that the RNR miss a huge opportunity every year, about now, by not mailshotting the 240 odd URNU students who graduate every summer, 210 of whom do not want to join the RN. Of the units that do make an effort - PRESIDENT had a push last year - the initial interest is then ruined by the infrequent and absymal presentations they give to potential recruits. Last month, for example, PRESIDENT gave a talk to a group of 40 or so keen young people interested in the RNR, but the content was so bad, there was no-one to talk to afterwards, and most people there walked out in disgust at the unprofessionalism of it all. BZ PRESIDENT!

 

Oh come on. Busy degree!!!! Try juggling a proper job, tiny holidays, kids, families, mortgages and the shambolic disorganisation of the RNR etc etc blah.

, ...so who pays for BRNC?...not a private club...still the MOD to the Navy. TLB excuses don't wash.

.

I agree...the RNR doesn't seem to pick up suitable URNUs. They do seem to struggle a bit with the concept on arrival that they are not automatically officers! Add to that the prospect of being called up.

Putting all that aside they are an obvious source of new officers and this should be a central issue, not one for RTUs. COMMARES should be talking directly to BRNC about this...maybe they are?

All the research shows however that the RNR is something people tend to come to later in life... late 20's after they've established themselves elsewhere. The young ones in the RNR mostly seem to be RN drop-outs or hitch hikers on their way to the RN. So are URNU's such an obvious source? Are they right people?

 

Fair point, but you're not comparing like with like. The default setting for university students in every institution in the UK is lazy, always skint and not exactly dynamic. So commitment to ANYTHING, let alone a regular not-exactly-trendy pseudomilitary club is, IMHO, impressive. You're very out of touch with student life if you think your life bears any resemblance to theirs!

As far as I know, BRNC is pretty much self-funding with the foreign cadets there. I was once told that each International student pays for 7 RN ones, so as long as the college is 1/8th Arab, then it is a cost-neutral establishment. And yes, TLB excuses never wash when explaining away underfunding, especially as there's only one now in the entire RN, but the way MoD finances work is that you will hardly ever get a cut in one area to pay for an utterly different one elsewhere, especially if that area (URNUs) is already cut back year-on-year to beyond the bone.

 

Without going into too much detail I am very involved with student life!! So trust me not that out of touch. I do agree with you that showing that kind of commitment to a uniform, extra learning and a modicum of disicpline when their peers' biggest challenge is getting out of bed is pretty impressive I agree.

Nonetheless they don't really know the kind of pressures life holds until they are out there and perhaps they need to find that out before committing to the RNR. Yes I'm still talking about students and not F/T RN.

 

Hello, from my experience, contrary to what you suggest about URNU students - they are actually some of the most forward thinking, motivated, intelligent and successful people within the university. They have all passed the selection interviews etc... and have to demonstrate significant commitment to the organisation secondary of course to their degrees.

Even if they don't join the full timers, these people, as stated in the mission statement - will and are current 'movers and shakers' of organisations within the UK's business infrastructure. So... take into this role; a knowledge of the UK armed forces favourably.

Aside from the obvious social occassions as I commented previously, weekends & deployments away on ship were everyone working together (undeniably having a good time) but everyone took away from that experience big advantage that other students of course will not have experienced. Of course this is still a contentious issue, and of course opinions are varied but as I was in the organisation, and now the RNR, they both offer similar training achievements and are a worthwhile expenditure of the public purse!

Grace

 

So the tradition of a large proportion joining up & several of the senior Mids failing their degrees is just a local one, is it?

I'm afraid I don't buy it when any voluntary organisation holds forth about having the brightest & best - there is always an element of self-selection, and there is no guarantee that the best people will come forward - especially when those who express any interest in joining the RN at their initial interview are told 'we're not a recruiting organisation - go elsewhere' as happened to several people I know.

Also, having a fair amount of contact with ex-URNU people who've not joined the RN/RNR, I would suggest that, while these people are certainly bright, they are no more 'movers & shakers' than I am...

APN

DoI: Joined the RNR with a number of URNU rejects, all of whom are now in the RN.

 

As far as I know, BRNC is pretty much self-funding with the foreign cadets there. I was once told that each International student pays for 7 RN ones, so as long as the college is 1/8th Arab, then it is a cost-neutral establishment....


Unfortunately this is not true. The percentage of foreign cadets who pay for themselves is not as high as people think. Defence Diplomacy and other such schemes mean that HMG actually pays for a fair few, which can get v frustrating when you are trying to get rid of them but are told that thier presence is a political gesture.... When I was on the College Staff (about 8 months ago) we had to make cuts in the budget, along with evryone else, but the URNU pot of gold was firmly ring fenced from on high. Again frustrating - it was our money but we had no control as to how it was spent. By the way - Big screen TVs come from other sources than URNU budgets...

 

[hr]

Yes... got to agree with you on that one - some of my friends who are now full timers had a bit of a tricky time with the AFCO to my understanding.

[hr]

Good point, I'm not a mover or shaker either (in the business world) - and my ex-URNU friends may not be right at this very moment in time but I see great potential for them, they have the drive and ambition, so in time I am sure they will fulfil the URNU manifesto!

Gracey 8)

 

With all due respect, it's not "your" money at all - when the URNUs were given to BRNC, the Dartmouth budget was uplifted by the exact amount that they cost, so if they didn't come under BRNC, then the money wouldn't be there anyway. And as for "we had no control" - isn't Commander URNU one of the 4 BRNC Commanders, so in fact "you" (ie BRNC) have the total and full control of the money via him? Typical Dartmouth "Us and Them" attitude when all were meant to be working for the same organisation.

And from my meagre knowledge of the BRNC budget, it has to be the most porous ring fence in the world, always being chipped away so that the loser SO3s on the staff there can have their car park heated. Or something. :twisted:

 

Interesting snippet in JANES, that RN is now beginning studies into P2000 / Scimitar class replacement for the next 5 years. Anyone care to bet on the outcome?

 

ans : pedaloes

 

RNR units can request to a P2000 to utilise and have done in the past, however, there is a general feeling amongst the squadron that the RNR don't support URNUs and it should be a 2 way thing. The OTC and TA have a much better relationship and share training resources and activities.