University etc

Sentenashi

War Hero
Ninja_Stoker said:
For RN Aircrew, the brutal truth is we prefer 18 year old undergraduates.

They give a longer usable return of service before they are promoted beyond flying duties & they don't come with the "life experience" of a university education & all the political crap that comes with it - in other words they do as they're told. :wink:

This is music to my ears.

Result.
 

airborne_artist

Lantern Swinger
The problem is Ninja that while the RN wants bright, trainable 18 year olds as baby aircrew, the bright, trainable ones often know it (and so do their parents) so they go to university first.

My daughter is a great case in point - I'd say she'd make a great observer, and a good-enough pilot. But with three As in Maths, Physics and Biology she's sensibly going to Bristol for her degree, where she can join URNU/RNR/OTC/TA, and she'll apply at the start of her third year.

How about a gap year at BRNC to include grading, so that when they go to uni they know they'll be coming back, and when the RN gets them they can put them straight into flying training (assume they'll do Fleet attachments during each summer vacation).
 

Powder

Lantern Swinger
Service pilots do not have the same licences as civilian pilots.
Though many do go on to qualify in civil aviation many do not. Service flying is completely different from civilian bus driving
I am quite aware. I have said this previously in the thread.
Thanks
PS: Everyone I have spoken to, who used to be flying in the forces (inc ex-red arrow pilot and manager) have said that commercial flying is VERY boring compaerd service and they usually leave and find another job anyway.
Ninja_Stoker said:
For RN Aircrew, the brutal truth is we prefer 18 year old undergraduates.

They give a longer usable return of service before they are promoted beyond flying duties & they don't come with the "life experience" of a university education & all the political crap that comes with it - in other words they do as they're told. :wink:
FANTASTIC!
 
chris78290 said:
alfred_the_great said:
Joining at 22/23 as a non-grad has significant drawbacks, as does joining at 24/25 as a Grad.

I was wondering if you could just expand on the problems faces by joining at say 24 as a graduate rather than 21. The obvious one is that you will take longer to get through the jobs you have to do to tick the boxes and get to 2 and a half and then start trying to really work your way up the ladder but apart from the fact you will obviously be older what are the other issues faced?

Right, this is a bit of a subtle one...

If you join at 24, you'll not get out into the Fleet in your first job until 26/27, and not move onto your Navs job (or equivilant) until your 30th birthday, or more probably until 31/32. You could then expect to be promoted to Lt Cdr, and then onto the PWO world. This then compresses the time you have to reach Cdr and be selected to Command at about 39/40. In turn, this will reduce the time you have available to reach Cdre and Admiral, and still retire at 55(ish).

I know this is thinking ultra-long term, and no more than 1 officer from a term's intake will make it to Cdre, but it is something you have to bear in mind if you want a longer term career.

Also to be factored in is your personal life at 30/31; typically you will have a spouse and kids on the way, and being treated as a relatively junior officer will definately lose it's appeal. This is not to say it can't be done, but being stiffed for random duties or staying behind for a basin trial is arse, and you won't be leaving that kind of job for another couple of years.

Just something to think about, and I factor I would have an answer for when you went to the AIB....
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
airborne_artist said:
The problem is Ninja that while the RN wants bright, trainable 18 year olds as baby aircrew, the bright, trainable ones often know it (and so do their parents) so they go to university first.

The statement regarding ideal Aircrew candidates was actually quoted from a bone fide source well above my payscale & indeed above that of Captain AIB, Commodore BRNC & Captain Naval Recruiting. So that kind of narrows it down to the 41 or so Flag Officers. (Much to Normans' chagrin.)

There are heaps of bright trainable ones who are prepared to seize the opportunity offered at the optimum moment, so whether the powers that be feel it necessary to offer further incentive above an "in service" degree is open to conjecture.

It surprises some that last year the RN awarded 4 bursaries, 4 lower 6th scholarships & 1 upper 6th scholarships for Pilots & Observers combined, given that the amount of viable applicants far exceed the requirement without the need for financial incentive. Proposing a gap year at BRNC maybe pushing it that little bit beyond the bounds.

But, then again, having been heartily amused watching an exchange Commonwealth Navy helicopter pilot strutting his stuff wearing his flying coveralls & mirrored sunglasses at a quite recent airshow with 100% cloud cover, nothing fails to surprise some of us when it comes to recruiting pilots. :wink:
 

cadetsmum

Lantern Swinger
Ninja_Stoker said:
It surprises some that last year the RN awarded 4 bursaries, 4 lower 6th scholarships & 1 upper 6th scholarships for Pilots & Observers combined, given that the amount of viable applicants far exceed the requirement without the need for financial incentive. Proposing a gap year at BRNC maybe pushing it that little bit beyond the bounds.

I have to laugh -just quoted this statistic to Junior and his comment was " and how many applied???" - his dad and I fell about laughing.


OP - your plan is Junior's plan as well, although when he chose his A Levels we did stress that he should chose subjects on the off chance that he woke up one morning and decided he wanted to go to University.

I do have some sympathy - schools these days seemed geared up for 6th formers to go to Uni - those that don't want to go seem to be in the minority.

for what its worth the comment that the RN prefer to get them young was mentioned to me elsewhere and whilst it seemed freakish at the time, it does make sense. However another thing Junior was told - and again how true this is I don't know - that at his age (the same as you) if he theoretically passed his AIB now they would fail him, just to see if he came back to repeat it ...I guess to show them how determined he was to join the RN as an Officer.
 

airborne_artist

Lantern Swinger
if he theoretically passed his AIB now they would fail him, just to see if he came back to repeat it ...I guess to show them how determined he was to join the RN as an Officer.

Aged 16 he could have applied for a two year sixth-form scholarship, and then he'd be at AIB next month. and clearly some will pass, or they can't make any awards. At a rough guess at least 40% will pass, and while only a small number get a financial award, a few more are (certainly used to be) offered a reserved place at BRNC on leaving school.

The only people who fail are those that have not made the grade. There are no tricks employed, and your comment sounds like a trick to me.
 
Too many for you, not being funny but if you want any money out of the RN before joining you have to ideally be a uni student studying medicine, dentistry or engineering or a youngster apparently wanting to go FAA or one of the above. It is very rare that potential warfare or logistics officers get money and that is because they know they will always have the numbers applying and that they are not battling civvy employers with attractive graduate packages and salaries in the same way they are with engineering graduates and doctors/dentists.

Either way you have to be sh*t hot! You have to make them think that if they don't get you through that door or stamp a claim on you with a healthy cheque then companies in civvy street will be offering you x,y and z with all the trimmings and they'll lose you!

Also the reserved place thing is misleading, your AIB pass is valid for a year (no matter what your age) so if you pass in March and don't join for the next 3 intakes then you wasted your time!! Hence why you were told earlier in this thread to apply at the start of your upper sixth.

No offence Sentenashi but you appear to be a bit like a magpie on this thread, you swoop in on the nice bits that jump out at you like, getting in quick, them giving you scholarships and reserved places etc. Read it all again, the good and the bad bits and learn the hell out of the jobs you want to do, what is required (certain UCAS points for example) and inform yourself better about the selection process. Then think about AIB and what comes after, it is not easy, especially for people still at school - don't let positive encouragement on here let you think it is!
 

airborne_artist

Lantern Swinger
AA, how many people apply (or used to apply) per number of reserved places and financial awards?

No idea how many apply. The board does a paper sift first, and and for two-years scholarships, rejects all those whose GCSE scores don't make the bar. The scores are not straight points, though, as you get extra points for some subjects. Essentially you'd be looking at Bs. Not all subjects are taken into account, either, so it's no good having GCSEs in golf just to make up extra points - I think it's based on seven or eight subjects.

I expect they do the same for one year sixth form awards, and perhaps even something similar based on A-levels for bursaries.
 

Sentenashi

War Hero
chris78290 said:
Too many for you, not being funny but if you want any money out of the RN before joining you have to ideally be a uni student studying medicine, dentistry or engineering or a youngster apparently wanting to go FAA or one of the above. It is very rare that potential warfare or logistics officers get money and that is because they know they will always have the numbers applying and that they are not battling civvy employers with attractive graduate packages and salaries in the same way they are with engineering graduates and doctors/dentists.

I already applied for the sixth form scholarship and cancelled my application. I know all of this, I'm just curious.

Also the reserved place thing is misleading, your AIB pass is valid for a year (no matter what your age) so if you pass in March and don't join for the next 3 intakes then you wasted your time!! Hence why you were told earlier in this thread to apply at the start of your upper sixth.

Well the guy I spoke to, a Lt Cdr said that if I applied and got through in my "lower sixth" year then I would have a place at the end of my A-levels, no further AIB required.

No offence Sentenashi but you appear to be a bit like a magpie on this thread, you swoop in on the nice bits that jump out at you like, getting in quick, them giving you scholarships and reserved places etc. Read it all again, the good and the bad bits and learn the hell out of the jobs you want to do, what is required (certain UCAS points for example) and inform yourself better about the selection process. Then think about AIB and what comes after, it is not easy, especially for people still at school - don't let positive encouragement on here let you think it is!

I've been studying and thinking about this application for well over a year, I know fully well what's involved. I pretty much got to the AIB last year, but my studies/activites became too much and I had to postpone it.
 
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