University etc

SRT1

Badgeman
Sentenashi said:
I'm not in the upper sixth, I've just started year 12, I'm 16. My understanding was that you can apply when you're 17, which in my case would still be in year 12.

Atleast, I understand and hope.

You don't apply when you're 17, you apply at a certain point in the year, it's not based on age. I can't remember when the UCAS application process starts and ends (I did mine 4 years ago) so you should ask one of your teachers.

You said in your opening post that you don't want to go to University. If you're considering doing something you don't want to do then why not get a job? At least that way you get paid instead of running up a huge debt (my student loan stands at over £20,000 and is increasing by about £300 a year).
 

airborne_artist

Lantern Swinger
At 16 the chances are that you know nothing about university, in all truth. You need to get some visits done, not just wandering about the campus, but going to a department that you could be interested in, and learn about the courses.

University isn't like school - either in terms of the learning process, or in terms of the extra-curricular stuff. All the clubs, groups, societies are run by the students, not by the lecturers, for example.

The pros of going to university include a) most of your mates will b) you'll get a recognised qualification that will last a while, (even if you join the RN and get chopped/med'ed out), c) you'll develop as a person, with your own age group.

The cons are a) cost and b) possibility of dropping out part way through so incurring costs, and wasting time.

The RN wants to take more 18 y/o Mids into BRNC, hence the in-Service degree scheme, but be aware that Dartmouth and flying training are tough calls, and that extra three years maturity may get you through things that an 18 y/o struggles with.

What were your GCSE grades, and what are your AS subjects, and what grades are realistic? If you think you'll get As and/or Bs then go to university.
 

Zoidberg

War Hero
Sentenashi said:
I'm not in the upper sixth, I've just started year 12, I'm 16. My understanding was that you can apply when you're 17, which in my case would still be in year 12.

Atleast, I understand and hope.


I'm working in a pub for £5p/h because I dropped out of college, not sure if the RN will actually accept me because of my foot. I regret dropping out of college because I have 0 fallback options at the moment if the RN doesn't work out.

At least if you go to university, you can join and officer training corps or a University Royal Naval unit.

I believe you want to be a pilot, right? What if your eyesight doesn't meet the requirements or you fail your FATs?

At least if you go to uni you'll have had some experiences, become more mature for the AIB and probably had a few decent parties :wink:

Here's a quote for you:"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley."
 

Powder

Lantern Swinger
So you think that being a qualified service pilot will open more doors in civie street han being an occifer in the submarine service?
Think again, there are more qualified civilian pilots chasing flying jobs than vacancies and it has been that way for anumber of years
Yes. I am friends with a LOT of commercial airline pilots and even the recruiting officer for a major airliner. He said that ex-forces (particularly RAF) pilots get snapped up pretty much straight away and are highly preferenced over civi pilots who have learnt to fly with a civi school and have hours in simulators.

I now understand that I was being ignorant about SS though.
 
Powder said:
Maxi_77 said:
Before completely discounting university a couple of points to consider. First no matter how certain you are now that you will stay in the RN for a full career till 55 remeber many who have joined with that intention change their view at some point during their service.
True. That's why I guess its lucky to be entering as a pilot. I can't imagine a Submarine Officer will find it easy to find a new job when leaving the service.
About AIB not accepting lads our age because of not enough life experience; This is why I am apply as a voluntary firefighter when I turn 18 for the local firestation, as part of my DofE scheme. Also have lots of other stuff, but not going to bore you with it.
What would you guys recomend for gain Life experience. Afterall we are 17, 18 at max, we are in full time education and are restricted by parents or not being over 18 of commitments otherwise.

I am an ex \submarine officer, and started my first civvie job the Monday after leaving the service the friday before. Since then I have not been unemployed for more than a weekend, and that is after nealry 35 years on the retired list. As a service pilot you are almost unemployable without retraining, why would an airline pay for that when they can pick up type qualified pilots in the open market.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
The further education dilemma:

Hypothetical triplets A,B & C, who pass everything at first attempt, based on current rates of pay:

All achieve minimum of 5 GCSE's A*-C (Including maths & English).

A: Joins as Rating aged 16

B: Goes to 6th Form then joins as Officer

C: Goes to 6th Form, followed by uni, then joins as Officer.

............................................................................................................

up to 2 years later.

A: Initially earns £205 per week (Net) starting pay & learns a trade, gaining in-service qualifications & experience. Goes on to earn around £31,680 over 2 years, whilst siblings gain A Levels

B: Earns £30 per week EMA for two years, possibly takes on a part-time job to augment income. Passes AIB at 16, earns £1050 scholarship per year. Gains sufficient A levels to join RN- Passes selection, starts as an Officer on £15, 268, passing out of BRNC on £24,132

C: Earns £30 per week EMA for two years, possibly takes on a part-time job to augment income. Passes AIB at 16, earns £1050 scholarship per year. Gains sufficient A levels- Passes AIB, earns Bursary (£1500 per year or £4000 per year as engineer) & Reserved place, starts university.

...........................................................................................................

2-3 Years later

A: Completes task Book for Leading Hand. Promoted to Leading Hand after 4 years, now earning £27,051 per year, goes for Upper Yardsman (officer selection), passes AIB. Undergoes training at BRNC, passes out at S/Lt, now earning £29,000. Now has 5 years practical service experience. Starts OU degree whilst serving, has already earned a total of around £87,000

B: Promoted to Lieutenant earning around £37,172 . Now has 3 years practical service experience. Starts OU degree whilst serving. Has already earned a total of around £67,400

C: Passes selection, joins as S/Lt. (£12, 000 Golden Hello if an Engineering grad) Awarded 2.5 years seniority. Has a Degree. Can expect £15-£20,000 student debt, will earn £29,006 first year of service.


All figures approximate. All cock-ups mine.
 
I wouldn't bank on scheme A, and I wouldn't suggest you follow it: if you want to be an Officer, join up as an Officer; if you want to be a Rating, join up as a Rating. I understand that people may not aspire to a Commission immediately on joining, however to join as a Rating solely with a view to becoming an OFficer further down the line is a bad idea.

If you want to go to uni, go to uni - on it's own merits. Discount the RN from the equation, it is only a job. There are benefits and drawbacks to each kind of entry: my only bit of advice would be to join at the earliest opportunity for each scheme. Joining at 22/23 as a non-grad has significant drawbacks, as does joining at 24/25 as a Grad.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
It's absolutely correct that the only sure way of becomming an Officer is by joining as one, however it would be remiss to suggest that joining as a rating renders a commission unattainable as 25% of Naval Officers joined as ratings, rising to 30% of Engineering Officers & dropping to around 10% Corps Commission RM Officers.

Difficult: yes, statistically less likely: yes, guaranteed:no, impossible: no.

There is also the fact that if you join with a degree, you leave with a degree whether a rating or an officer.
 

Powder

Lantern Swinger
I am an ex \submarine officer, and started my first civvie job the Monday after leaving the service the friday before. Since then I have not been unemployed for more than a weekend, and that is after nealry 35 years on the retired list. As a service pilot you are almost unemployable without retraining, why would an airline pay for that when they can pick up type qualified pilots in the open market.

Thats good. What do you do now? I didnt say that the airliners will pay for retraining. I just mean't if you had the same license (ATPL) that the civies have, and have previous flying experience with the services, then you will be the superior choice.
I am just saying what a lot of people have told me, inc ex-servicemen.
 
alfred_the_great said:
Joining at 22/23 as a non-grad has significant drawbacks, as does joining at 24/25 as a Grad.

I was wondering if you could just expand on the problems faces by joining at say 24 as a graduate rather than 21. The obvious one is that you will take longer to get through the jobs you have to do to tick the boxes and get to 2 and a half and then start trying to really work your way up the ladder but apart from the fact you will obviously be older what are the other issues faced?
 

slim

War Hero
Powder said:
I am an ex \submarine officer, and started my first civvie job the Monday after leaving the service the friday before. Since then I have not been unemployed for more than a weekend, and that is after nealry 35 years on the retired list. As a service pilot you are almost unemployable without retraining, why would an airline pay for that when they can pick up type qualified pilots in the open market.

Thats good. What do you do now? I didnt say that the airliners will pay for retraining. I just mean't if you had the same license (ATPL) that the civies have, and have previous flying experience with the services, then you will be the superior choice.
I am just saying what a lot of people have told me, inc ex-servicemen.


Service pilots do not have the same licences as civilian pilots.
Though many do go on to qualify in civil aviation many do not. Service flying is completely different from civilian bus driving.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
For RN Aircrew, the brutal truth is we prefer 18 year old undergraduates.

They give a longer usable return of service before they are promoted beyond flying duties & they don't come with the "life experience" of a university education & all the political crap that comes with it - in other words they do as they're told. :wink:
 
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