Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by letthecatoutofthebag, Oct 15, 2007.
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I have thought about this often, mostly while staring[not that way!] (with a pinch of jealousy) at a mate who is an MCD (badge) and Para trained (badge) too, all he needs is the AAC to get the third.
Whilst I know where you're coming from I think its right and proper to give people recognition for doing just that bit more. Submariners get their kissing kippers (never heard that ever before - brilliant), WAFU's get the moths and the rest, do they deserve them any less. I think its a good idea as is the SP pay (and no I don't get any!).
But, I do think there needs to be a clear line before we drive off down the USN route - which 2SL did look at in about 2002/3, PWO badges, Command badges. All safely put to bed, just a little too much.
I don't think its just for the arduous nature of the training, its more a recognition of the skills they have and the inherent danger over and above the norm they could face. And before you then go on about skills and PWO (and I'm tempted to make a jibe but I will for once show untypical grown up restraint) this is what I meant about drawing a line, sure PWO's learn a skill nut do you really want a badge?
I don't know about only in the early days of their career either, on one of the current PWO courses there is an MCDO who has done almost nothing but diving jobs since he joined and after PWO will beeline straightback to them. He agrees entirely about Collingrad.
The parachute wings have existed for many years, as did parachute pay, though when we were trained they were very careful to ensure we didn't do enough jumps to qualify, most annoying, S/M and parachute pay would have been good.
Always thought the "Dive Boys" in the tank got parachute pay if they were SSPAT (Sub Sunk Parachute Assistance Team), plus Tank pay, plus S/M pay!
They would have got parachute pay if they had qualified for the 'lightbulb'
Para wings [and para pay for 9 years] on my No No 1's/2's'/No8's et al from 1962 and Commando from 1964. Also Divers badge [dive pay] and a 2 badge killick sparker to boot. My best dress looked like a boy scouts uniform!!!!!!!!!!!
Slightly off subject, but the comment above brought to mind something I saw at a RUSI presentation a couple of years back.
Two 4 star admirals speaking, one RN one USN.
The RN admiral had one and a half rows of ribbons (and he had a ship sunk beneath him during his career)
The USN admirals had SIX rows !!
That narrows him down a little.
USN ribbons include ( just about) ADQUALS. Different folks different strokes. They are good eggs nonetheless, be gentle.
Are we slowly yet steadily going back to the good old days of every branch having their distintion cloth between the gold stripes? Obviously MOs and DOs kept theirs, but it's not terribly consistent us keeping it and everyone else ditching it.
I think you are ever so slightly wrong.
My interpretation of the missive was that submariners MUST wear their Dolphins on their short-sleeved white shirts. I draw the distinction because I believe many are not happy with this, and would rather not wear their Dolphins in these rigs, for a variety of reasons.
The same dit gave permission (though not compulsion) to wear dolphin tie-pins, though I have yet to see anyone with these since the dit came out (though I'm sure Raleigh, Sultan & Collingrad are replete with these 'proud' men).
The kippers and the wings are already worn on uniforms. The wearing of kippers has merely been extended to other types of uniform i.e.No.3's. This helps engender the current philosophy of ethos and 'belonging' to something that many others do not belong to. It encourages a certian positive feeling amongst those particular corps of people and so hopefully promotes a more professional outlook and feeling about the organisation to which they belong. As mentioned, the badges are already worn and so IMO the new regulations are not going down the route of the US armed forces where there would appear to be a badge for lots and lots of occasions/people.
Whenever and wherever there is change, there always will be some people against it, and some for it. The feeling I get from the kippers thing is generally one of a positive nature.
As a serving submariner i dont want to put my kippers on display all the time, it should only be on mess undress or No1's.
They are in the Royal Navy - that is what they belong to. The team works, and all that!
I always like the scene in the film Blazing Saddles where he is signing up all the bad men to raid the town.
He issues them with badges to show who they are but the Mexicans reply 'Badges,we need no stinking badges'
About sums it up.
Think how many he would have had he sunk with his ship as the British Admiral would have had had he sunk with his. British Captains appear not to think sinking with their ships heroic these days. They get rewarded for being the last to escape.
AB Divers - Combats - Dive Helmet Rank Slides - EOD slide on their shoulders
I'm on leave relaxing so am going to avoid ranting. And breath........
Maybe it's just me being an old fuddy duddy, but are we talking about matelots in the Andrew or a buch of bloody boy scouts with badges down their arm for all types of trivial stuff.
Give me a Buch of bloody boy scouts any day
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