Type 45 Anti-Ship Capability?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by willsonline, Jan 28, 2009.

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  1. Just a quickie; does the T45 have an anti-ship weapon? If not why the f**k not?

    It seems like the new Destroyers will be primarily anti-aircraft ships, why not fit them out with an array of arms so they are more flexible such as TLAM.

    Who will have the capability to destroy seabourne targets?
  2. It was built with space to incorporate an anti ship weapon in later life. It has space behind the VLS to put Harpoon in approximately the same place as it is on the Type 23s, or it can have a brand new anti ship missile whenever we invent/buy one.

    It was also designed with the ability to incorporate other current and future weapons systems like TLAM.

    It's primary function is to be an area air defence vessel, and I think it pretty much fits the bill. If operations in the future require an anti surface role (like when we lose the 23s and don't have enough money to procure FSC) we can think about it then.
  3. And it'll have a helicopter anyway, so it will have an (albeit limited) ASuW capability.
  4. I have just got back from seeing Britains Super Dooper, go anywhere, do anything, warship enter her home port of Portsmouth. She appeared out of the mist just after 1pm, escorted by a small patrol craft and a couple of tugs. Mmmm, I was not overly impressed. OK, I know it's all about "stealth" technology, but to me, she seemed Big And Eugly. There was no WOW factor. My opinion might change as and when I get to have a look round it, hopefully in the not too distant future.

    Semper Strenuissima
    • Like Like x 1
  5. :oops: bloody hell only 8 to a cabin sleeping 2 high :roll: :roll: , and a burma road wide enough to take a bus :wink: Ops room like a TV control studio 50 monitors plus 8) 8) :oops:
  6. Just seen a BBC news i/v with the PWO.

    God knows what someone with no connection to the Navy would have made of it.

    He spoke in dumbed-down geek speak about PAAMS and SAMPSON and failed to get across essentially what the ship is for and why it is so important. I could almost imagine people shaking their heads and saying things to the effect that the pongos are suffering in the Stan and the Navy's getting shiny new toys.

    It's not enough to say it has nice cabins and is 'much better' than what we've got; in all these things the 'forgotten service' has to do a quick resume of what it's all about in the big picture. He had a couple of minutes but with the greatest respect looked like a rabbit in the headlights. 'Project power over land' is meaningless to most people.

    For everyone who gives Media Ops a hard time, at least one of them would have gotten the message out properly.
  7. We really have fucked up here. After the Falklands War the command papers investigated what was wrong with our ships. One conclusion stated that we had gone for comfy accomodation at the loss of weapons.

    He who does not learn the lessons of history is doomed to failure.

    Also, compared to TLAM Harpoon doesn't even come close. Lets face it, this ship is as big as an Arleigh Burke but with half the number of VLS silos. How the **** did we manage that?
  8. Since when have ships become "it"????? BBC is equally guilty!!!
  9. Yes. 4.5" Mark 8 Mod 1 and that's your lot for the moment.

    There's margin (space, weight, power) for Harpoon or "something else", but the cynic in me says "fitted for but not with" or "fit to receive" both translate to "you're having a laugh, right?"

    No money and no clear, immediate need for the 45s to be able to take out enemy DD/FF at long range. (Not many short-term threats like that, and in theory enough 22s/23s with Harpoon to take care of them; and if you point out that things may change, you'll get smugly told that the business case for fitting SSGW to Type 45 can be revisited at some future point)

    PAAMS is the dog's dangly bits for ASMD (despite Lewis Page making an @rse of himself on the Today Show this morning, claiming that because air defence is difficult it's impossible and we should only have aircraft carriers, nothing else) but like many here, I'd have preferred more VLS silos and more of the "fit to receive" kit actually provided.

  10. Sadly, we were tied into PAAMS as a result of the original Horizon contract. Everyone involved with the Programme wanted VLS 41, as on US DDGs, which is a MUCH more versatile and BATTLE PROVEN system. Damn those Frenchies.
  11. It will need to have plenty of anti-aircraft weapons, the superstructure is so large it could probably be seen from space.
    I know it has stealth technology, and will have some new fangled radar jamming thingy, but who needs a radar to spot it on the horizon when a pair of binoculars would do!
    The ship would be a bomber pilots ideal target...he couldn't miss a mast that big

    I agree with onions on this ...the ship is big and ugly and definately does not have any WOW factor!

    (apparently it does have nice comfy bunk beds though )

  12. Anti aircraft weapons? Oh sh1t, forgot about them.........
  13. I just cant understand a ship of this nature would not have a proper anti-ship capability. The 4.5" gun, I thought was designed to be used as NGFS such as shoreside targets as in Um Quasar (2003). In theory you could use the cannon against hostile ships but it's a bit unconventional, isn't it?

    Yes AA-wise very nice but what happens if the helicopter is taken out, then the DD is up shit-creek and would not be offensive at all. What happened to the Uk having a powerful offensive Navy?

    And hopefully somebody more informed than me can say how many of the 6 will actually be operational at any one time? There's just not enough hulls...
  14. If you recall, it was originally 12, ie one for each T42. Then, as the 42s were laid off, some wag decided to keep the one for one, first down to 8 T45s, then 6. But there is an option to procure more.

    Yeah, right!

    Let's go for some RIBs and RPGs, oops, sorry forgot, Abdul Raghead has already done that!
  15. The 4.5" was originally designed as a multirole weapon - ASuW and anti-air, with NGS capability as a bonus. It's since been slimmed down to "mostly NGS with some ASuW", but that wasn't the original plan.

    And it's hardly "unconventional" to sink ships with gunfire - the last time the RN did so was 1982 (Alacrity sank ARA Isla de los Estados in Falkland Sound, one dark and stormy night)

    That said, it's only a sensible option for smaller and less lively targets at short ranges - it's not an all-purpose shipkiller. Leaving SSGW off the 45s is, bluntly, an economy measure: there isn't a current or credibly predicted threat that needs it, so there's no money. At best, if things change, we can hope to get an ASuW capability on the ships *before* we start expecting them to shoot it out with Nastyland's missile-armed frigates.
  16. Hang on that's not quite right. 4.5" Mk 8 was indeed originally designed to be multi-role but the bonus bit was AA.

    At least that's what it said on the instructional video I used to show every week.
  17. I think it was because I was refering to a non-distinct generic Type 45 rather than "HMS Daring". It seems weird to refer to a class a "she".
  18. Fitted for but not with has always been a get out of jail free card for MOD can't remember a ship having been refitted as such. The 4.5 Mk 8 in 20 years experience I never got more than 10 rounds in a burst before it went t*ts. Cherry B 73 the old MK6 would keep going forever. BAE EADS or whoever represent the shareholder not Jack me Tickler and will only go further downhill in the recession, glad I'm out next time the pooh hits the fan the capability will be even less than the last time but feck more expensive with the open cheque policy this and previous goverments promote. MOD full of c*cks easy life but never see the sharp end, Abbey Wood shinning example.
  19. The 4.5 Mk 8 Mod 1 does have a surface capability, as well as AA. The fact is that NGS (Naval Gunfire Support) is its main task. In the surface mode I think the range is about 22, 000 yds, (about 11 miles), With extended range ammunition, that goes out to about 30,000 yds. I'll let you work that out in miles!

    Keep Striving

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