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Type 42 Helicopter Landings?

Hawthorns

Midshipman
Don't know if this is the right spot to post, but hoping you lads can give some assistance.

Got a type 42 model HMS Edinburgh -reportedly the biggest of the 42's - and have a Lynx in the hanger and NH90 on deck which is used to raise funds for Help 4 Heroes at shows.

Because she's a 1:64 scale, she is reclassified as semi-scale due to the helicopter models on board.

In the hanger we have the ubiquitous Lynx looking a bit small due to her being 1:72 scale; (We can only get 1:72 from Airfix etc). On the aft flightdeck, in order to merge more with the larger scale, an NH90 has been fitted.

I know Edinburgh has been/is involved with Mediterranean & Baltic NATO Missions, SNFM & BALTOPS, and is frequently saiing with foriegn ships with NH90's on board, and that the RN itself uses Merlins AW101/EH101 and Sea Kings.

Has anyone any eye witness accounts of ANY of these helo types making a landing on her flightdeck, even as an emergency measure? I know there is a marked difference in rotor diameters from the Lynx (~12m) up to the NH90 at ~18m.

I have tried contacting several Squadrons but the only way to confirm if any have landed is a costly search through all flight logs apparently and thats out of my reach.

As the ship is used for H4H charity shows repeatedly, and grubby little hands keep breaking the Helicopter rotor blades, she's in need of a replacement this month, and I am considering which model to replace it with.

The model is as shown here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeUY4kTZ1w4

So any help would be appreciated greatly

regards, Bry
 
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guestm

Guest
Hello mate. I can confirm there has never been a Merlin, or NH90 landing on a T42. I have heard rumours that a Sea King once landed on a batch 3 in Gulf War 1 but can't confirm it and certainly wouldn't have liked to have been involved in any of that. Sounds like BS to me. The rotors would quite simply meet hangar door or the cab would end up snagged in the nets resulting in death and a wrecked flight deck.

If you need any more help drop me a pm.
 
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I'm not a WAFU, but I'm pretty sure that a T42 can't take anything bigger than a Lynx. You need a copy of HOSTACs/APP2 neither of which I can find online.
 

Sherpa

Midshipman
I heard that merlins/sea kings etc could never land due to rotor diameter and also weight issues.
If you are doing a diorama, why not try to set it up so its as if its doing a HIFR or a pallet drop during a RAS ?
 
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Hawthorns

Midshipman
Thanks Lads, I used your link HOSTAC's/APP2 and it took me to the US Coast Guard. Ship Board Helicopter Operational Procedures. Not RN but gives an insight. A quick read through shows about the biggest thing they can land on coast guard cutters seems to be black hawks with 16 m dia rotor blades, and a lot of detail I didn't know about landing positioning and safety.... So thanks for that.
Now quite sure the RN would only stick with Lynx on Type 42's as you say due to safety concerns...Leaves a debate on what to do with the flightdeck model as the Lynx is too small to alter for rotor rotation given the already installed operating mechanisms under the flightdeck...But I'll work on it It could be just use the existing one as a feature for the kids, then replace with a static Lynx or remove completely where and when for accuracy.
 

Hawthorns

Midshipman
I heard that merlins/sea kings etc could never land due to rotor diameter and also weight issues.
If you are doing a diorama, why not try to set it up so its as if its doing a HIFR or a pallet drop during a RAS ?


Now thats an idea I can follow up... thanks In flight refueling? Wow just seen that on

HIFR Heilocopter Inflight Refueling... NAVY - YouTube

That is dangerous...

Could defo. do a helo landing some pallet, which would then allow the drive mechanisms from the actual ship (under and through the flightdeck) to run up to the helo and rotate blades for show dyas though...
 
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I'm not a WAFU, but I'm pretty sure that a T42 can't take anything bigger than a Lynx. You need a copy of HOSTACs/APP2 neither of which I can find online.

On HMS Cardiff during our first deployment we had an Army Puma land on the flight deck out in Belize and that was a tight fit. So if the Merlin is bigger than that (I left before they came into service), I would doubt it could get on the deck of even a stretched 42.
 

Hawthorns

Midshipman
Thanks All, going to see whether I can do a netted cargo drop with control rods from the underflightdeck motor up through the rigging to drive the helicopter, if not, it'll have nothing.
 

Waspie

War Hero
I'm not a WAFU, but I'm pretty sure that a T42 can't take anything bigger than a Lynx. You need a copy of HOSTACs/APP2 neither of which I can find online.

I was a WAFU and I can assure you just cos the book says doesn't mean I t can't or won't be done. I was in a SK when we had to do a landing on a Leander, HIFR kit U/S, we needed go juice, the Leander was the only 'platform' so we landed. No deck markings for a King, we had to place the tail wheel in one of the aft waists next to the mortar. Avoiding all the pipes and other seaman like paraphernalia that littered the aft end of a war canoe. I won't even say how close the blades were to the superstructure.

Sorry for a minor hi jacking of the thread.
 

Patrick

Lantern Swinger
Good effort, I agree with MLP Merlin's can go on type 23s or type 45s if you have any of those models!
 

scouse

War Hero
I was a WAFU and I can assure you just cos the book says doesn't mean I t can't or won't be done. I was in a SK when we had to do a landing on a Leander, HIFR kit U/S, we needed go juice, the Leander was the only 'platform' so we landed. No deck markings for a King, we had to place the tail wheel in one of the aft waists next to the mortar. Avoiding all the pipes and other seaman like paraphernalia that littered the aft end of a war canoe. I won't even say how close the blades were to the superstructure.

Sorry for a minor hi jacking of the thread.
Clear all round to land SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!:laughing2:
 
G

guestm

Guest
I was a WAFU and I can assure you just cos the book says doesn't mean I t can't or won't be done. I was in a SK when we had to do a landing on a Leander, HIFR kit U/S, we needed go juice, the Leander was the only 'platform' so we landed. No deck markings for a King, we had to place the tail wheel in one of the aft waists next to the mortar. Avoiding all the pipes and other seaman like paraphernalia that littered the aft end of a war canoe. I won't even say how close the blades were to the superstructure.

Sorry for a minor hi jacking of the thread.


That is probably more dangerous than a controlled ditch.
 

Hawthorns

Midshipman
I was a WAFU and I can assure you just cos the book says doesn't mean I t can't or won't be done. I was in a SK when we had to do a landing on a Leander, HIFR kit U/S, we needed go juice, the Leander was the only 'platform' so we landed. No deck markings for a King, we had to place the tail wheel in one of the aft waists next to the mortar. Avoiding all the pipes and other seaman like paraphernalia that littered the aft end of a war canoe. I won't even say how close the blades were to the superstructure.

Sorry for a minor hi jacking of the thread.

No problem Waspie, that ain't hijacking at all.

I only need one example of where normal procedures were overidden in an emergency situation on RN Ships to justify my use of a helicopter, other than Lynx, on the aft end of this type 42. I respect, and am glad of, the views previously offered, but trying to source a 1/64 Lynx is impossible, nor making one up in time for the shows, and the present helicopter does lie on the flightdeck without it looking excessively cramped. It is just a model after all.

That example shows it is possible one of these could have landed, and unless someone has concrete proof to throw at me at a show, that one hasn't; then I can say, "I haven't concrete proof one has landed, but then you haven't any concrete proof one hasn't..."

Unfortunately, its only a model, putting on a show to raise funds for H4H, but some I meet at these events can't just accept it for what it is, a representatation as accurate as I could produce within scale and model restrictions.

Thanks ALL for the input, and i hope we meet at a show somewhere for a chat.

PS Ditching...:-| The government would have heart failure..think of the cost! -that'd have to be made up by one less cocktail party at Whitehall....

regards
 
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guestm

Guest
PS Ditching...:-| The government would have heart failure..think of the cost! -that'd have to be made up by one less cocktail party at Whitehall....

regards

I'm sure that no matter what we think of them, they'd rather lose an airframe than three aircrew, an FDO, possibly some maintainers and an airframe all whilst OPDEFing a fight deck, spending millions on ship repairs and bringing justice to the Captain, PWO and AC who allowed it to happen. Not to mention the hideous press an event like that would generate.

I wouldn't agree to it, and I'm sure no-one else sane would either.
 

Waspie

War Hero
I do have another 'dit' regards a SK making an unscheduled landing on a North Sea oil platform.

The long and short of it was a phrase from the oil company when informed the cost of a Mk 6 SK, "how would you like it - cash or cheque"
 

Topstop

War Hero
What a fantastic model, but you will have to troop the Bunting tosser @ sec 43, in the video the Union Jack on the Jack Staff is upside down.
 

Hawthorns

Midshipman
IS it,?....it was blown off at a show and reattached whist I was setting up other flags around the dispaly..Embarrassing...I certainly didn't spot it OOPS
 

Hawthorns

Midshipman
I'm sure that no matter what we think of them, they'd rather lose an airframe than three aircrew, an FDO, possibly some maintainers and an airframe all whilst OPDEFing a fight deck, spending millions on ship repairs and bringing justice to the Captain, PWO and AC who allowed it to happen. Not to mention the hideous press an event like that would generate.

I wouldn't agree to it, and I'm sure no-one else sane would either.

Well, not being in full reciept of all the information of the incident, we can't guage the seriousness of the situation which drove the decision to land can we.
 
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