Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by MoD_RSS, Mar 26, 2012.
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By all account murdered by an ANA soldier, the sooner Cameron grows some and get our troops out of there the better.
My condolences to their famillies.RIP
Two more lives lost and for what reason.Could someone please remind me why the lives British and other NATO personnel are being lost in this hellhole of a country.
There's an awful lot of wailing and nashing of teeth when a Nato soldier kills civilians or Paki/Afgan Military personel but it seems to me it's almost becoming routine that the ANA is murdering Nato troops.
I've lost count of the US/UK/Aussie etc casulties at the hands of the ANA.
Still they killed the little shit.
Oh, well that's alright then!
It is madness to expect our troops to work alongside people that they cannot trust implicitly. How can it be right to have one of our lads up at night watching the ANA who may be tented in a corner of the PB, just in case one of them decides to go on a murder spree? It is common knowledge that the Taliban have infiltrated the Afghan police and the ANA. As the time for withdrawal of all our combat troops draws closer all Afghans will have to make the choice about who they will back, the Karzai government or the Taliban. Cameron trotted out the same old crap when he was visiting the USA recently, that our presence there keeps our streets safer. It has often been said before but we have learned nothing from history, where Afghanistan is concerned.
The dissident element that has inflitrated the ANA is not only targeting NATO troops, they are doing a pretty good job at killing Afghan soldiers, policemen and senior politicians as well.
I don't like the idea of our guys being killed by the people they are helping to train either but we need to recognise that there are good and bad in every organisation and on balance I would hope that we are still a force for good (and even more so as we move back from combat ops and concentrate on training and mentoring the ANA to undertake those combat ops on their own).
Need I remind you of HMS Astute? How does that square with the argument of working alongside people that are trusted implicitly?
I don't think it is reasonable to draw any comparison with the Astute murder, these latest killings in Afghanistan are far from an isolated incident.
KABUL, Afghanistan -- A number of Afghan national army soldiers have been arrested inside the country’s defense ministry over a foiled suicide bomb plot, officials told NBC News.
The soldiers were held on Monday afternoon along with 11 suicide bomb vests in a guard box in the building in the capital, Kabul, army officials said on Tuesday.
I disagree - I think it is wholly appropriate to draw comparisons. The Astute killing was perpetrated by someone with whom Ian Molyneux worked and (presumably) trusted in exactly the same way that many of the ANA soldiers involved in similar killings of NATO troops were known to their victims and (presumably) trusted (in may cases).
I disagree with you and reiterate, in Afghanistan this has become a regular occurrence.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
It is no use kidding ourselves, when we pull out Afghanistan will revert to its old tribal ways, that have never really gone away during the last 10 years.
As you may have missed it I refer you to my edited post at the bottom of page 1.
I'm with Finks on this one, the Astute incident cannot be compared to Afganistan.
Yes, a trusted member of the crew commited murder but that cannot be used as a comparison with the amount of blue on green incidents happening in Afganistan.
The problem is that we have invested blood and treasure in Afghanistan to supress and defeat the Taliban and the only way to give that "investment" any chance of paying off is to see it through to the bitter end.
In this case the bitter end means equipping and training the ANA and Afghan Police so that they can take the lead on restoring and maintaining order.
We can't do that without having boots on the ground alongside Afghanis. I am sure that the vast majority want NATO out of Afghanistan. The majority because they don't want foreigners on their soil but recognise they are a "necessary evil". The remainder because they don't want foreigners on their soil and believe the Taliban way is the answer.
Deciding who to trust and who not to trust is a lottery, pure and simple. Of course the odds are greatly improved when you don't have bloody lunatics killing kids and burning the qu'uran!!!!!
Surely no one actually believes that the Taliban can be defeated, in the main they live there, it’s their home. They can melt into the general population when necessary only to re-emerge when it suits them. The Talib high command sit in relative safety in the tribal regions of Pakistan, if we were to see it through to the bitter end we would be there ad infinitum. The ANA are in the main made up from the northern tribes and there is no love lost between them and the Pashtun of the south, I see no point in delaying our withdrawal, we should get out now.
I didn't say it was the right strategy and I didn't venture any opinion on how successful it might be - I merely commented that this seems to be the only option facing NATO - in my opinion we shouldn't have gone in in the first place - the lessons of history were writ large already and more fool us because we have now been twice by the same dog!
I still think it would be wrong for us to bail out now though - if we stick it through to the end and it still falls apart when we do withdraw then there are no Vietnam-like recriminations. I just feel very sad that there are going to be other marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen who are going to have to pay the price in the coming months and years for Bush and Blair's folly.
Why is it that politicians cannot or will not learn from history?
I have stated from the start of this conflict that in my opinion we should never have gone in. If any country needs to change its leadership then it has to come from the population of that country.
We have interferred and paid for our interference with too young lives. Time to pull out now before any more lives are lost, I for one am convinced that within a year of us pulling out the situation will be the same as if we had never gone in.
Finally the politicians that took us into this conflict should be held to account!
Broadside's optomism that NATO forces hanging around in Afghanistan for another two years will somehow provide a better outcome does him proud.I only wish I could share it.He may have sadness over the loss of more good personnel but I have anger at the sheer futility of it all.
There's the awful tragedy of the whole sorry situation and there is also the thousands of innocent Afghans who have also lost their lives.
Fishhead - I only wish I was optimistic. I actually see it as a huge gamble with the odds stacked strongly against us. The problem is that bailing out now will do nothing whatsoever for the situation in Afghanistan. Staying the course and doing the best we can to complete the programme to train and professionalise the ANA might do some good.
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