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Two nations: those who work, those who won't

flymo

War Hero
slim said:
For years I have been stating that total benefits should never be more than 37 hours at the minimum wage.

At present many are on such high benefits that they would have to be stupid to go and find work.
So is it their fault that benefits are so high?
No blame the gvernment for putting them in that situation. :twisted: :evil:

Ahh, yes, but New Lie-bor need to get votes from somewhere...
 
Obelix said:
Good article.

As someone pointed out though, the £25k for fruit picking is a major exaggeration. More like £5.70ph, or £4.00ph with free accomm on the farm. As an immigrant here in the UK, I've got friends who've done it.

Yes it is £5.73ph but that wage entitles you to claim Working tax credit that tops it up to the £25k with the other beneifits it brings

Good post Slim, and as you say, it should be the first 37hrs after that you pay your way like everyone else
(the problem with the Gov benefits, is once you get one you get them all, so not only do you get your wage topped up, but you get your health prescriptions, glasses, artificial legs and wigs, dental treatment and glasses FREE, reduced council tax and your rent paid) a working man can not compete with that


Childcare payment is another scam, woman earns £170pw and pays £500pw childcare, of which the gov pays her £240 err right she works all week to earn zilch and pay a childminder £10 either she/he is cheating or likes work and rid off the kids

The Banks are still at it, had several customers this week, can I have a copy of my Taxcredits the bank need it for my mortgage application, so lending on money that could stop tomorrow

Another thing is unemployed office workers who will only take an office job, WELL sorry mate, you can pick fruit or vegetables or sweep a factory floor just like anyone else so take the job or no more money

I can not do that I am a manager you know, err well you may well have been a manager but you are not now are you?

Jack McH
 
Was watchin the box the other night
some of the immigrant workers trying to sign on for benefits now the
jobs are getting a bit tight and of course the field work on farms isn't
required this time of year.

Some had been in the UK more than a year but worked without an insurance number ----------- so no benefits getting paid !
Apparently there's lots of 'casual workers ' earning but non wanting to register so they avoid tax and insurance deductions.
It also avoids the employer contributions aswell.

As for the career dole users --well its into second generation now---
the kids saw Mum and Dad [partner] and just caried on the family tradition.


G.
 

Bergen

ADC
Maxi_77 said:
Bergen said:
Good post Slim. Next question we should all be asking is exactly when we privatised profit and socialised the losses.

RM

I think the answer to that was that in general what have become the privatised profits were socialised losses before they were privatised. I for one am old enough to remember just how good it wasn't under British Rail, Post Office Telephones, your Local Electricty Board, The Gas Board etc etc. No whilst they are socialised they will be losses.


What I meant was slightly different. Major financial institutions [Barclays for example] are using tax avoidance in the UK as a central plank of their business models. Avoid paying tax to HMG and use the profits to increase bonus's and shareholder dividends - Privatised Profit.

When these same financial institutions crash and burn the bill is picked up by UK society - the tax-payers [you and me] - Socialised Losses.

RM
 
Bergen said:
...... Major financial institutions [Barclays for example] are using tax avoidance in the UK as a central plank of their business models. Avoid paying tax to HMG and use the profits to increase bonus's and shareholder dividends - Privatised Profit.

When these same financial institutions crash and burn the bill is picked up by UK society - the tax-payers [you and me] - Socialised Losses.

RM

One of the old observations of the West from the Soviet Union was along the lines of "What kind of society pays the people who count its money more than those who earn it?".

It was a good question then and it remains so. Our lives are ruled by bean-counters of one kind or another and where has it got UK plc? We couldn't be much deeper in the hole we've allowed them to dig for us.
 

Squirrel

Lantern Swinger
It's refreshing to see a jouralist tell it how it is, and I am in 100% agreement.

I also agree with many of the solutions posted on here, but ladies and gentlemen, be realistic!

What is going to change??

Fcuk all, that's what. Labour know that the majority of their votes come from the scrounging underclass that populate our Social Security system, and thus whatever policies they may advertise, they will never do anything to lose their votes. Conservatives may be a little better, but unless we come out of the HRA, then absolutely NOTHING is going to change. Keep paying them taxes boys and girls.
 

Bergen

ADC
Squirrel said:
It's refreshing to see a jouralist tell it how it is, and I am in 100% agreement.

I also agree with many of the solutions posted on here, but ladies and gentlemen, be realistic!

What is going to change??

Fcuk all, that's what. Labour know that the majority of their votes come from the scrounging underclass that populate our Social Security system, and thus whatever policies they may advertise, they will never do anything to lose their votes. Conservatives may be a little better, but unless we come out of the HRA, then absolutely NOTHING is going to change. Keep paying them taxes boys and girls.


External events are going to force a change because UK Plc can't continue to function on a rapidly diminishing tax-base. Writ simple the 'scrounging underclass' can't continue to scrounge if the working-class don't have jobs and aren't paying taxes.

The only choice that HMG has is to borrow and to print money. In the USA last week the Federal Reserve announced that it was going to print an extra $1.25T [ that's $1,150,000,000,000] to buy up toxic assets and try and kick-start the US economy. This is just a blueprint for massive inflation and currency devaluation. The UK economy has a long way to go before it hits bottom, inflation is on the horizon and of all the developed economies the UK will be most affected. I can't see this happening without a lot of social unrest and a fundamental change in the way UK Plc does business.

RM
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
slim said:
For years I have been stating that total benefits should never be more than 37 hours at the minimum wage.
Tax and NI removed as well!

IMD
 

slim

War Hero
In_my_day said:
slim said:
For years I have been stating that total benefits should never be more than 37 hours at the minimum wage.
Tax and NI removed as well!

IMD

Of course.
Why should a person who will not work be treated better than one who will?
 
So the welfare State has failed, as it is ultimately bound to do. When people find it is easier to live on benefits than work it is only a matter of time before the mass of unemployed/unemployable can no longer be supported by the few who do work. Pity most socialists don't want to know about this minor detail.
 
Crabman said:
So the welfare State has failed, as it is ultimately bound to do. When people find it is easier to live on benefits than work it is only a matter of time before the mass of unemployed/unemployable can no longer be supported by the few who do work. Pity most socialists don't want to know about this minor detail.

It will not be too long now
Previously people had a thing called PRIDE, and EMBARASSMENT this is rapildly depleting

There are still pensioners today TOO PROUD to claim any benefit they are entitled to, inevetably they will soon be dead

The under thirties, know their rights, though a majority work, maybe PRIDE but today I would suggest it is to have bigger better things in life

The under twentyfive unemployed, have got a taste for benefit, and all the good things it brings, why work when it costs you time and money When you can sit and watch 24hr Sky movies on the 52" Pasma or go play golf
(to work you have to spend time travelling to work, pay for the transport, pay for snacks and lunches away from home)

The current million unempolyed were high earners, so no benefit until APRIL 6th the new tax year, when they become entitled,
They are queuing up at the moment waiting, so not only is it another million coming out of the pot, it is also a loss of A MILLION high income going into the pot

Jack McH
 
4to8 said:
Nothing new really except the extent to which it has spread.When I first went to London c1960 all the lower paid jobs on the underground and buses were done by Jamacians and us Paddys.Anyone prepared to work in the UK could always get a job and not just at the lower levels.Same when I worked around the Midlands in the 70's. I worked with some top class folks from many countries and jobs were easy to find

And there was me thinking you were still skin and essence! :roll:
Looks like you actually wearing Essence of Skin! :D
 

zRichi

Badgeman
I see where you lot are coming from in this thread...

But honestly, would you lot work for £5.50 or whatever minimum wage is for *proper* 'ard graft.

I struggle seeing my future (before I wanted to go into the RN) on 26k and living in berkhamsted. At 22, living on my own on 26k (for those not in the know, a 2 bed flat round here is 900+ pcm )and trying to put money away for a house is nigh on impossible.

I'm not saying accepting benefit is OK but if the government are going to pay some assholes 22k to sit on their arse then people are going to accept it.

FYI 22k is £13.09 an hour - if the government is willing to give more than working 70 hours at McDonalds every week for nothing do you honestly blame them?
 

code137

Midshipman
Its the old story, I’m to fat/sick to work but to lazy to exercise/see a doctor and when I do see the doc he gives me a sick chit to prove I’m sick so I can stay on benefits and not have to work, and mum and dad never worked and they had 12 kids a 5 bed house all paid for by the DHS they also did not have day time TV, I cant work because I would miss the JK show, and I’m on it next week, for being a sponging waster,

I say Funk them if you to fat lazy stupid to work after a set time you benefits should be cut on a sliding scale the longer you are out of work the more the cut,
Parents should take responsibility for their kids, if your child is pregnant under 16 she should still live with you and you support her and the kid at your cost not the states over 16 and single move into a house for single mothers it would work out cheaper in the long run and who would want to live in a house full of screaming kids (a deterrent for getting pregnant me thinks)
We seem to pay people for being stupid or lazy reduce the payment give them an incentive to work.
If they have never worked stop the payments… they have put nothing into the pot so why should they take money from the pot

extreme maybe
we have to start somewhere
 

zRichi

Badgeman
Evolution - Split between the rich and poor

Ah a fellow Newscientist reader! Good stuff.

This fellow seems to think that evolution could still happen......as the split between the rich and poor divides (let's face it....you're not going to a member of the aristocrats falling in love with some scummy faced chav in Liverpool are ya?) deepen increasingly - the more wealthy spend time at the gym, learning new instruments and the chavs spend more time smoking weed and eating coco pops - he reckons humans will split into two sub species.

For those that have spent time in Glasgow would probably agree that's already happened!
 
zRichi said:
Evolution - Split between the rich and poor

Ah a fellow Newscientist reader! Good stuff.

This fellow seems to think that evolution could still happen......as the split between the rich and poor divides (let's face it....you're not going to a member of the aristocrats falling in love with some scummy faced chav in Liverpool are ya?) deepen increasingly - the more wealthy spend time at the gym, learning new instruments and the chavs spend more time smoking weed and eating coco pops - he reckons humans will split into two sub species.

For those that have spent time in Glasgow would probably agree that's already happened![/quote]

I have not been to Glasgow in a long time, but I believe that it has already happened elsewhere as well.

Could it be that Dr Curry has overlooked a further possibility, that the chimps will evolve into an intelligent species almost as clever as current mankind? That would then leave us with the descendants of the current workers (very intelligent) the chimps (quite intelligent) and the chavs (duh).
 

metocman

Lantern Swinger
Bergen said:
Squirrel said:
External events are going to force a change because UK Plc can't continue to function on a rapidly diminishing tax-base. The UK economy has a long way to go before it hits bottom, inflation is on the horizon and of all the developed economies the UK will be most affected. I can't see this happening without a lot of social unrest and a fundamental change in the way UK Plc does business.

RM


I see rough times ahead, time to renew the firearms license!
 
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