Turkey and the EU

Do you think Turkey should join the EU?

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't Care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    213
#1
It is the Mail, but.

Linky


I for one do not wish to see more foreigners flooding to our shores, we are full up as it is and this would only serve to put a massive strain on our already beleaguered public services.
 
#2
finknottle said:
It is the Mail, but.

Linky


I for one do not wish to see more foreigners flooding to our shores, we are full up as it is and this would only serve to put a massive strain on our already beleaguered public services.
Valid point Finks.... but I take what Peter Hitchins says with more than a pinch of salt.
 

slim

War Hero
#3
I reckon that we need Turkey in the EU just to piss off the krauts. Germany to the Turks is like the UK is to the rest of the world.
Perhaps once Germany was flooded with Turks they may just see the UKs point of view for a change.
On a more personal note, it would save me £10 a trip if they were members :p
 
#4
finknottle said:
It is the Mail, but.

Linky


I for one do not wish to see more foreigners flooding to our shores, we are full up as it is and this would only serve to put a massive strain on our already beleaguered public services.
That's exactly my thought FN. Cameron was gobbing off about migrants in the run up to the election and now he is keen that this poor country should join the EU knowing full well that there will be tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousand of them economically dumping themselves here.
 
#6
With Turkey edging towards closer involvment may help the Jerries decide if they want to remain in the EU or not. Well rumour has it that they are already reprinting the DeutschMark.
 
#7
NotmeChief said:
finknottle said:
It is the Mail, but.

Linky


I for one do not wish to see more foreigners flooding to our shores, we are full up as it is and this would only serve to put a massive strain on our already beleaguered public services.
That's exactly my thought FN. Cameron was gobbing off about migrants in the run up to the election and now he is keen that this poor country should join the EU knowing full well that there will be tens of thousand, if not hundreds of thousand of them economically dumping themselves here.
Yes but these ones would be voting Conservative when the arrive...
 
#9
finknottle said:
I am more than a little puzzled as to just why Cameron is so eager to have them admitted to the dubious club that is the EU.
Probably because at the present the Turkish government is still secular and is a stop gap for Islamist expansion West...
 
#10
AfterSSE said:
finknottle said:
I am more than a little puzzled as to just why Cameron is so eager to have them admitted to the dubious club that is the EU.
Probably because at the present the Turkish government is still secular and is a stop gap for Islamist expansion West...
Well if the do gain entry there will be no stopping them advancing on the UK, along with their religion and politics.
 
#11
Remember a large part of Kurdistan is in Turkey, so any Kurd would be able to claim Turkish Citizenship. Not sure about the Armenians...............
looking shakey for my grandkids future. I'm too old for it to have much of an effect.
By the time they are old enough to worry, the Lefty teachers will have them brainwashed to be good little Yooropeans :dontknow:
Roofs
 
#12
slim said:
I reckon that we need Turkey in the EU just to piss off the krauts. Germany to the Turks is like the UK is to the rest of the world.
Perhaps once Germany was flooded with Turks they may just see the UKs point of view for a change.
On a more personal note, it would save me £10 a trip if they were members :p
Germany is already flooded with Turks, about 2 million of them. They drive the taxis, own most all of the small groceries, and generally do all the gash jobs. The place would fall apart at the seems without them.
 
#13
slim said:
I reckon that we need Turkey in the EU just to piss off the krauts. Germany to the Turks is like the UK is to the rest of the world.
Perhaps once Germany was flooded with Turks they may just see the UKs point of view for a change.
On a more personal note, it would save me £10 a trip if they were members :p
That's the price of our heritage then is it ?......£10 a trip.
And the Germans predicament will be ours as well, we're overrun with Poles and Eastern Europeans so we may as well have the Turks.
All the bleating I've read on these threads about our defence budget,...

Oh woe Naval spending cuts,.....oh no there going to reduce our capability, etc etc.
Why, Churchill predicted years ago that the demise of Britain would be self inflicted and from within. I'll stick with the Churchill theory.

So lets do a Slim, we'll scrap the Navy Army and RAF, divvy the money and lets all have a great Holiday in ......lets see, ah yes Turkey.
Fuck the Grand kids.
 
#14
AfterSSE said:
finknottle said:
I am more than a little puzzled as to just why Cameron is so eager to have them admitted to the dubious club that is the EU.
Probably because at the present the Turkish government is still secular and is a stop gap for Islamist expansion West...
The Turkish Government is currently run by the AKP an Islamist rooted party - the constitution and therefore republic are secular and is upheld by the judiciary and the military.
However, the judiciary's and the military's powers to uphold secularism maybe clipped next month - there is a referendum on the 12th of Sept (coincidently the date of 1980 Turkish coup d'état, headed by Chief of the General Staff General Kenan Evren.)
 
#15
w.anchor said:
AfterSSE said:
finknottle said:
I am more than a little puzzled as to just why Cameron is so eager to have them admitted to the dubious club that is the EU.
Probably because at the present the Turkish government is still secular and is a stop gap for Islamist expansion West...
The Turkish Government is currently run by the AKP an Islamist rooted party - the constitution and therefore republic are secular and is upheld by the judiciary and the military.
However, the judiciary's and the military's powers to uphold secularism maybe clipped next month - there is a referendum on the 12th of Sept (coincidently the date of 1980 Turkish coup d'état, headed by Chief of the General Staff General Kenan Evren.)
The only reason they are still there or got in, is because they made concessions to the army, otherwise there would have been a take over by the army as they are mostly secular or christian and don't want the hardline crap that comes with Sharia laws..so the Islamist types conceded a few things to keep the peace.


The army still wields a lot of power, so this referendum may be moot.. :wink:

Another reason why they may not get is is their propensity for coup's...


wiki said:
Since Mustafa Kemal Atatürk founded the modern secular Republic of Turkey in 1923, the Turkish military has perceived itself as the guardian of Atatürkçülük, the official state ideology. The TAF still maintains an important degree of influence over Turkish politics and the decision making process regarding issues related to Turkish national security, albeit decreased in the past decades, via the National Security Council.

The military has had a record of intervening in politics. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed coups d'état in 1960, in 1971, and in 1980. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamic-oriented prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997.[8]

On April 27, 2007, in advance of the November 4, 2007 presidential election, and in reaction to the politics of Abdullah Gül, who has a past record of involvement in Islamist political movements and banned Islamist parties such as the Welfare Party, the army issued a statement of its interests. It said that the army is a party to "arguments" regarding secularism; that Islamism ran counter to the secular nature of the Turkish Republic, and to the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Army's statement ended with a clear warning that the Turkish Armed Forces stood ready to intervene if the secular nature of the Turkish Constitution is compromised, stating that "the Turkish Armed Forces maintain their sound determination to carry out their duties stemming from laws to protect the unchangeable characteristics of the Republic of Turkey. Their loyalty to this determination is absolute."[9]

Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace is not uniformly averse to coups; many welcome the ejection of governments they perceive as unconstitutional.[10][11] Members of the military must also comply with the traditions of secularism, according to the US Commission on International Religious Freedom report in 2008, members who performed prayers or had wives who wore the headscarf, have been charged with “lack of disciplineâ€.[12]

Paradoxically, the military has both been an important force in Turkey’s continuous Westernization but at the same time also represents an obstacle for Turkey’s desire to join the EU. At the same time, the military enjoys a high degree of popular legitimacy, with continuous opinion polls suggesting that the military is the state institution that the Turkish people trust the most.[13]

Over a hundred people, including several generals, have been detained or questioned since July 2008 with respect to Ergenekon, an alleged clandestine, ultra-nationalist[14] organization with ties to members of the country's military and security forces.[15] The group is accused of terrorism in Turkey.[16] [17]

On 22 February 2010 more than 40 officers arrested and then were formally charged with attempting to overthrow the government with respect to so-called "Sledgehammer" plot. They include four admirals, a general and two colonels, some of them retired, including former commanders of the Turkish navy and air force (three days later, the former commanders of the navy and air force were released).
 
#16
Another reason they should not be allowed in is that we have more than enough minging kebab shops, how anyone can eat that swill confounds me.
 

Hedgeporker

Lantern Swinger
#17
finknottle said:
Another reason they should not be allowed in is that we have more than enough minging kebab shops, how anyone can eat that swill confounds me.
Because 'we' don't know any better, and keep going back for more.

Kebabs in north London (lots of Greeks and Turks - why they insist on being next to each other after coming all the way to Britain escapes me) are brilliant . . . they sit you down, you get a free basket of bread with all sorts of dips and they'll serve you the kebab with rice and salad if you're eating in - at no extra charge. Presumably this more like how they do it in Turkey.

Back to the thread : The EU (as in Brussels) needs Turkey but Turkey is better off without the EU. They don't realise it yet but the Eurocrats just want lots of productive units for their economics, they couldn't give a toss about indigenous cultures. Yes it has some trivial practical benefits but these are just sweeteners. The EU just isn't clever enough to do what it intends to do properly, and we pay for it every day.
 
#18
AfterSSE said:
w.anchor said:
AfterSSE said:
finknottle said:
I am more than a little puzzled as to just why Cameron is so eager to have them admitted to the dubious club that is the EU.
Probably because at the present the Turkish government is still secular and is a stop gap for Islamist expansion West...
The Turkish Government is currently run by the AKP an Islamist rooted party - the constitution and therefore republic are secular and is upheld by the judiciary and the military.
However, the judiciary's and the military's powers to uphold secularism maybe clipped next month - there is a referendum on the 12th of Sept (coincidently the date of 1980 Turkish coup d'état, headed by Chief of the General Staff General Kenan Evren.)
The only reason they are still there or got in, is because they made concessions to the army, otherwise there would have been a take over by the army as they are mostly secular or christian and don't want the hardline crap that comes with Sharia laws..so the Islamist types conceded a few things to keep the peace.


The army still wields a lot of power, so this referendum may be moot.. :wink:

Another reason why they may not get is is their propensity for coup's...


wiki said:
Since Mustafa Kemal Atatürk founded the modern secular Republic of Turkey in 1923, the Turkish military has perceived itself as the guardian of Atatürkçülük, the official state ideology. The TAF still maintains an important degree of influence over Turkish politics and the decision making process regarding issues related to Turkish national security, albeit decreased in the past decades, via the National Security Council.

The military has had a record of intervening in politics. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed coups d'état in 1960, in 1971, and in 1980. Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamic-oriented prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997.[8]

On April 27, 2007, in advance of the November 4, 2007 presidential election, and in reaction to the politics of Abdullah Gül, who has a past record of involvement in Islamist political movements and banned Islamist parties such as the Welfare Party, the army issued a statement of its interests. It said that the army is a party to "arguments" regarding secularism; that Islamism ran counter to the secular nature of the Turkish Republic, and to the legacy of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Army's statement ended with a clear warning that the Turkish Armed Forces stood ready to intervene if the secular nature of the Turkish Constitution is compromised, stating that "the Turkish Armed Forces maintain their sound determination to carry out their duties stemming from laws to protect the unchangeable characteristics of the Republic of Turkey. Their loyalty to this determination is absolute."[9]

Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace is not uniformly averse to coups; many welcome the ejection of governments they perceive as unconstitutional.[10][11] Members of the military must also comply with the traditions of secularism, according to the US Commission on International Religious Freedom report in 2008, members who performed prayers or had wives who wore the headscarf, have been charged with “lack of disciplineâ€.[12]

Paradoxically, the military has both been an important force in Turkey’s continuous Westernization but at the same time also represents an obstacle for Turkey’s desire to join the EU. At the same time, the military enjoys a high degree of popular legitimacy, with continuous opinion polls suggesting that the military is the state institution that the Turkish people trust the most.[13]

Over a hundred people, including several generals, have been detained or questioned since July 2008 with respect to Ergenekon, an alleged clandestine, ultra-nationalist[14] organization with ties to members of the country's military and security forces.[15] The group is accused of terrorism in Turkey.[16] [17]


On 22 February 2010 more than 40 officers arrested and then were formally charged with attempting to overthrow the government with respect to so-called "Sledgehammer" plot. They include four admirals, a general and two colonels, some of them retired, including former commanders of the Turkish navy and air force (three days later, the former commanders of the navy and air force were released).
Yes, the AK Party did make concessions to stay in power, but they have been elected in twice now, the last time with more than 45% of the vote which is a lot considering the huge number of parties on the ballot sheet there.
Many see the referendum as a test for next year's general elections. One of the main opposition parties CHP are also testing their new leader Kılıçdaroğlu who has just taken over from Baykal who lead the party for 18 years but was forced out earlier this year after an alleged sex tape with a female party member was released to the media.
Opinion polls are putting it at a close race with the ballot boxes open at airports and main boarder crossings.
Keep your eyes peeled for who is the next chief of General Staff, too.
 
#19
Having just got back from Turkey at 0830 this very day, it would be madness for them to join their whole way of life would have to change.

No more copies of watches and designer gear, Health and safety, was at Manavagat near Side reading the daily Stun and deciding what trips and outings to go on, so no Paracending or Whitewater Rafting for me or the family.

(Loads of Russian girls there looking and dressing like models in short skirts/hotpants and 5 or 6" stilletoes with loads of Bling, but by eck they were misrable bitches)
 
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