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Training Management Officer (TMO)

PreGSP

Newbie
Morning Gents,

This is a question regarding the role as a TMO in the RN. If (for you avid investigators out there) you've noticed my previous posts', I've previously applied to be a Warfare Officer in the RN but, unfortunately, did not pass one of the stages during my process. As I had my 'meeting' to be let known I was unsuccessful, I was handed a sheet and told to come back once my time to reapply had elapsed, but consider the role as a TMO (assuming this was because they are heavily unsubscribed, I believe?) in the meantime. I've trawled through the forums on here, but I still have a couple of questions looming over my head - mostly, what does a TMO actually train? Do you choose a specialisation to train? Or is this given to you? I understand this may start as basic maths/English, but.. What's the process? How does one go on to train the Commando's or Engineers of the Royal Navy?

Also, what's the general perception of TMO's in the RN (ie. Are they appreciated?) Is this role best come in to direct? Or after serving with a branch for a while to earn some respect from those you are training?

These may be ridiculous questions, but as my time to reapply as a Warfare Officer comes soon, I thought I best assess the recommendation as a TMO, as this is similar to the traits of my current/previous job history.

Following on from messaging directly, @Trainer has (quite rightly!) requested I post this in the public domain in order to help others, too.

In advance, thank you for your help - I look forward to your response!
 

PreGSP

Newbie
Yes, already done so - but I struggled to find specific answers to the questions I have asked. If I have missed these answers, however, I shall gladly take direction!

Thank you for your advice, however, sounds like you've got the knack for this training malarkey, Sir ;)
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
but I still have a couple of questions looming over my head - mostly, what does a TMO actually train?

They train Sailors and Officers in all parts of their training (various phases from New Entry to Final Phases), but training is but a small and increasingly smaller part of the job and your direct face time with trainees will most likely be limited to your first or second job. Thereafter you will go into the training management and design/QA roles, further (self) education/training, and more specialised training (sometimes) like Submarine Navigation or Commando courses.

Do you choose a specialisation to train? Or is this given to you? I understand this may start as basic maths/English, but..
Usually depends on your own education and ability. There may be some wriggle room at the initial establishment to move between areas you are more suited to deliver.

What's the process? How does one go on to train the Commando's or Engineers of the Royal Navy?
That's by 'negotiation' with your Career Manager, whereby your preferences are matched against the needs of the Service and others who may also have similar preferences/qualifications.

Also, what's the general perception of TMO's in the RN (ie. Are they appreciated?) Is this role best come in to direct? Or after serving with a branch for a while to earn some respect from those you are training?
In truth it's not great, it's partly jealousy and partly that TMOs have very little direct front line relevance [You all know what I mean]. Lateral transfers are rarer these days and always were regarded as X or WAFU failures looking for an easy way to remain in [once your in, you can make your own mind up in that regard].

You will get respect from your trainees if you're good at what you do. 25 years on I still keep in touch with many of the Mechs and Tiffs I taught and many are Officers now who I work with.

I have to caveat all of the above in that I am no longer a TMO. The Instructor branch (that became TMO) was my origin and I was moved to big E a long time ago but I do still socialise and work with my TMO friends so in that respect I understand the generic position today.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Good call with regard posting on the main forum rather than via PM as it very much benefits others.

The main point about TMO in relation to Warfare Officer is that it's virtually a non-seagoing branch, as already alluded by @wave_dodger .
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
The main point about TMO in relation to Warfare Officer is that it's virtually a non-seagoing branch, as already alluded by @wave_dodger .

All in context, average Engineer - 2 sea appointments, then perhaps FOST/Flotilla job. Warfare first 12 years, mostly at sea, then more sea time to chase SO1 command onwards.

You pay's your money you takes your choice!
 
The perception with TMs was confirmed by their insistence that they were useful as a Branch because they took up a lot of "whole Navy" assignments. For many, all that confirmed was they didn't have a useful role, and instead were just blocking others from having an interesting 2 years out of core assignments...
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
The perception with TMs was confirmed by their insistence that they were useful as a Branch because they took up a lot of "whole Navy" assignments. For many, all that confirmed was they didn't have a useful role, and instead were just blocking others from having an interesting 2 years out of core assignments...

and there is the jealousy bit I mentioned......
 
Genuine Q: Do they still carry the (affectionate/derisory - delete as appropriate) 'Schoolie' tag? Or have they bigged themselves up to something superior-sounding these days?
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
All in context, average Engineer - 2 sea appointments, then perhaps FOST/Flotilla job. Warfare first 12 years, mostly at sea, then more sea time to chase SO1 command onwards.

You pay's your money you takes your choice!
Yep, seems odd that engineering officers spend about 2 years sea, followed by 6 years shore on average, particularly when there's a supposed shortage of engineering officers willing to serve afloat.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Yep, seems odd that engineering officers spend about 2 years sea, followed by 6 years shore on average, particularly when there's a supposed shortage of engineering officers willing to serve afloat.

I'm not sure about the willingness piece but we have gotten ourself into a real mess with availability of platforms, availability of SQEP and certified engineers (ODH), and the catch-22 of having sufficient sea time/platforms to get said engineers to SQEP/OHD standards, without breaking harmony and keeping people interested.
 

clonmel

Lantern Swinger
Looking further downstream, the J9 Media Ops world is awash with RN TMO / Admin Trg (RAF) / Army AGC (ETS) types. Which is good if you want to schmooze with the media luvvies; I've often thought that it'd be a pretty interesting niche to get into. And, as I'm sure others may allude to, nobody ever died of overwork in any Media Ops role.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Looking further downstream, the J9 Media Ops world is awash with RN TMO / Admin Trg (RAF) / Army AGC (ETS) types. Which is good if you want to schmooze with the media luvvies; I've often thought that it'd be a pretty interesting niche to get into. And, as I'm sure others may allude to, nobody ever died of overwork in any Media Ops role.

Which is very odd when you consider Media Ops is a core role for the Maritime Reserve. Really no need for the RN to throw TMO into these posts except that they are 'broadening' roles and some will have deployable opportunities.

In their defence people can't complain about a non sea focused branch that then pushes it's people towards potentially deployable roles.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Does this thread go to prove the age old saying, those that can’t teach?

Other than some potential for shitty jobs officer, a fairly cushy number
 

Trainer

War Hero
Book Reviewer
My work here is obviously done, without firing a shot, @PreGSP . Hope your questions have been answered. Just like @wave_dodger, I am no longer a serving Schoolie, but interface with them every day.

To give an idea of flavour, the building I am currently sat in, when I joined here in 2002, had a Lt Cdr and 12 Lt E(TM)s. It recently had Lt and 2 S/Lts. It now has no-one.

There is a lot of jealousy, TMO was a graduate entry branch at one stage. Whilst managing the TDT at a well known Personnel Admin training establishment North of Winchester, I was the lone Trainer in a sea of Clerks. As I used to point out to them, 'my job is to make sure you ******* do yours properly'...

My boss also did not like it that as the commissioning engineer for the training, I signed things off rather than him, and that was directly delegated to me from the OF5.

As someone above has pointed out, you takes your chance when you choose your branch. :)
 

Trainer

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Looking further downstream, the J9 Media Ops world is awash with RN TMO / Admin Trg (RAF) / Army AGC (ETS) types. Which is good if you want to schmooze with the media luvvies; I've often thought that it'd be a pretty interesting niche to get into. And, as I'm sure others may allude to, nobody ever died of overwork in any Media Ops role.

I can put you in touch with the MOS personnel who might argue that point a little with you... anyway many X and E officers would not have the social skills for that sort of role...LOL (Brace).

We're (let it go Trainer) also good at protocol work. I speak another European Language pretty well and so have been a shoe-in for some previous years at things like Farnborough. I remember being there with a delegation and next to me was a Captain AGC(ETS) who spoke fluent mandarin Chinese. That's value.

Because Schoolies are consummate L and D professionals, they take learning seriously. It is not uncommon for a Naval Schoolie to have 2 or 3 degrees.

Just think of Schoolies as the Strategic Intellect of the Forces and the Intellectual Glue that holds the Navy together and you won't go far wrong.
 
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