Training Management Enquiry

Rick

Midshipman
#1


Hi,

Just inquiring about the role of Training Management Officer. What type of work does this involve? And is it much an onshore/ offshore role (not that I'm bothered either way).

I have read the website but it is brief.​
 
#2
Having never heard of them I looked them up. They're schoolies in old money but with an engineering bias it would seem. One of the AFCO peeps will be able to clarify.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#3
A variety of roles, with significantly less emphasis on training delivery (aka chalk & talk in old money); much more concentrated on the quality & assurance of training delivery, management of training pipelines. With opportunities to broaden into RM, where they do carry out some training delivery and can opt to work with the Combat Camera teams, or work as IntO to a Cdo Unit (clearly very small numbers, small requirement, hence small opportunity). Mainly found working in HQ (DNPS - Service conditions, life long learning), QA/TD/Training Needs Analysis Cells, Phase 1 & 2 units.

I would wonder (personal; opinion) are they not a potential for greater outsourcing and hence ripe for redundancy?
 
#4
I would wonder (personal; opinion) are they not a potential for greater outsourcing and hence ripe for redundancy?
Not really - it's the delivery that has been outsourced. When they last tried to close down the instructor branch, they bailed at the last moment when someone with a modicum of common sense suggested to the powers that be that it might be a good a idea to retain a cadre of people in blue suits who understand the RN, hence can design courses, and police their delivery through Q&A work on the external training contractors (ie Flagship).

Pretty sure there are roles you would civilianise before this, even in the current climate. There are about 3 schoolies doing chalk and talk, that maybe you could civilianise, 8(ish?) FEDOs that you couldn't (unless you put them on some sort of sponsored reserve/NAAFI(NCS) TOS), and everyone else, who does sit in an office but doing deep-skilled analysis/pm work (ie you couldn't just draft in an SO3 ANY on rotation), where it helps enormously that they are on the inside of the tent.

Full disclosure, I was Warfare Officer, so no vested interest...
 

Rick

Midshipman
#5
So are they just instructors within the RN?

What happens when the ship heads into conflict? Do they help out damage control/navigation or still teach you in the middle of it all?
 
#14
There are a slack dozen of sea jobs for TMs, in all ranks. I know there are aspirations to increase these numbers, as they were very very close to being chopped in the pre-SDSR paperwork.

Most of the TMs I know/have met are really good people. They aren't the "tip of the spear", but they know that and work hard to support us. It's horses for courses, I'd never join as one, but then again, not everyone wants to be a Ship CO.
 
#15


Hi,

Just inquiring about the role of Training Management Officer. What type of work does this involve? And is it much an onshore/ offshore role (not that I'm bothered either way).

I have read the website but it is brief.​
What attracts you to this job in particular. Rick?
 

Subsunk

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#16
What attracts you to this job in particular. Rick?
Rick, I need to vent regarding this branch. CAVEAT: They mean well, they really do, and there are some of the most hard-working and dedicated Naval Officers I know to be found within their ranks. There are in particular a lot of high-speed SUYs and people who in civvy street would be head-hunted for their particular skillsets. On 'common appointment' or CAPPS roles they deliver a lot of value and in some cases a lot of insight.

VENT: they don't teach, they don't do sea time. There is a major issue regarding their credibility. IMHO they are often there as window dressing to fob off the likes of OFSTED. You will never hear me dissing them as lazy as, seriously, they all work immensely hard. The problem is that from this callsign's perspective, their workload is mainly self-generated and aimed at rendering themselves (as a branch) indispensable.

Look at the niche roles within the branch or alternatively look at AGC or RAF Education Officer. Schoolies abhor sea time. If you join the RN, we mostly look at you as baggage accordingly.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#17
Rick, I need to vent regarding this branch. CAVEAT: They mean well, they really do, and there are some of the most hard-working and dedicated Naval Officers I know to be found within their ranks. There are in particular a lot of high-speed SUYs and people who in civvy street would be head-hunted for their particular skillsets. On 'common appointment' or CAPPS roles they deliver a lot of value and in some cases a lot of insight.

VENT: they don't teach, they don't do sea time. There is a major issue regarding their credibility. IMHO they are often there as window dressing to fob off the likes of OFSTED. You will never hear me dissing them as lazy as, seriously, they all work immensely hard. The problem is that from this callsign's perspective, their workload is mainly self-generated and aimed at rendering themselves (as a branch) indispensable.

Look at the niche roles within the branch or alternatively look at AGC or RAF Education Officer. Schoolies abhor sea time. If you join the RN, we mostly look at you as baggage accordingly.
<deep breath> AND, a lot of us Instructor types have other skills; skills the pusser finds difficult to develop and retain. Granted sea time and appointments was generally always going to be limited, ever more now, but most joined for the wider opportunities.

Don't teach...mmmm, not sure what my first 3 years were then? As for credibility, 300+ days in Afghan 220+ days in Iraq gave me credibility in a different sphere.

As I am not an I or ETM anymore, I can look at your vent pretty dispassionately; I think its far off the mark, but I do suspect the days of the TM are numbered if only because if the RN has to make 90 (random) Officers redundant, the least pain would come from getting rid of the TMs, whose branch is almost unsustainable anyway.
 

Subsunk

Lantern Swinger
Book Reviewer
#18
Roger, all points noted. And I suck back on the more contentious and divisive points I made. Again, a big fan of some of the ETMs I have met who have a dizzying array of skills which we would never grow in house. And again, it provides a way for us to keep some top end SUYs in the service.

In the training context, we are getting buried under ISPECs, Systems Approach to Training, Training Needs Analysis, Knowledge/Skills/Awareness assessments and the like. I reached the point at work this week when my efforts towards the demands of Training Managers exceeded my efforts towards training. I would be far more supportive of the branch if far less of my output was directed towards it.
 
#19
Roger, all points noted. And I suck back on the more contentious and divisive points I made. Again, a big fan of some of the ETMs I have met who have a dizzying array of skills which we would never grow in house. And again, it provides a way for us to keep some top end SUYs in the service.

In the training context, we are getting buried under ISPECs, Systems Approach to Training, Training Needs Analysis, Knowledge/Skills/Awareness assessments and the like. I reached the point at work this week when my efforts towards the demands of Training Managers exceeded my efforts towards training. I would be far more supportive of the branch if far less of my output was directed towards it.
At least the days are over when a 'sports talented' I was entered then appointed to a billet where his frequent 'representing' (........ insert as appropiate) absences had to be covered by those in adjacent appointments.

Glory, Trophies and those Navy News pictures neglected to reflect the ground covered by others during those 'representing' absences. Humph.


Bob
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
#20
Roger, all points noted. And I suck back on the more contentious and divisive points I made. Again, a big fan of some of the ETMs I have met who have a dizzying array of skills which we would never grow in house. And again, it provides a way for us to keep some top end SUYs in the service.

In the training context, we are getting buried under ISPECs, Systems Approach to Training, Training Needs Analysis, Knowledge/Skills/Awareness assessments and the like. I reached the point at work this week when my efforts towards the demands of Training Managers exceeded my efforts towards training. I would be far more supportive of the branch if far less of my output was directed towards it.
Don't take my post the wrong way - lot's of talent, good people but these day's where's the branch focus and what does it deliver that other branches couldn't fill, or that couldn't be outsourced/omitted. Desperate times and all that....

Sports drafts - never met many skoolies doing that in the last 19 years; a few AE/MEs and my first Div Senior Rate was a commonwealth swimmer. Oddly I can still see some value in retaining and encouraging these bods.

I remember when the decision to kill the I's was made, there were over 650 people, more than 55% doing non-core activities - that's why they went.
 

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