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Topics for the First Sea Lord

I would agree that when it come to what the bigwigs consider as minor such as cuttlery etc the message very often fails to get through, but manpower planning is something that I know certainly used to be considered at veryhigh levels having had to write reports on why seamn xyz had not re-engaged at the end of his 9, or in my own case give my reasons in writing for requesting to be placed on the retired list.

It is bad enough for their lordships not to have enough ships, but it is even worse not to be able to send the ones you have to sea because you don't have the men and women.

Peter
 
I would ask 1SL to be as straightforward as Boycey was and keep telling the politicos the truth, whether or not they wish to hear it. However, I also believe that the senior Civil Service is part of the problem. Self Service is a better description, from what I have seen.
 
I seem to remember that Adml Boyce pointed out to the PM that he could not fulfill his commitments within his Budget.
Our glorious PM referred him to the Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Given the same circumstances, what would be Sir Jonathan's retort to such a spineless reply?
 
Gents: Let's be realistic here for a moment. There is a structure of governmental procedure that exists high in the ether above our heads, and you will be hard pressed to find anyone bold enough to breach this to step on toes. There are a myriad of other considerations to take into account as well, the main thing being the economy. The armed services, represented by whichever colour of uniform at CDS level will never have the political clout to challenge parliament because most MPs have wider interest topics (such as jobs, industry, their own ******* livleyhoods) and certainly not the armed forces (except when needed, of course) That said, there exists a thick cloud of obfuscation which prevents the pain and grief stories ever reaching the higher domains...the grass roots tales of manpower gapping, shockingly poor materiel support, ships well-past their useful lives, depleted morale and rank incompetence brought about by ambivalence and short cuts. It's all 'yada-yada' and 'I hear what you're saying' material, and stuff that definately ends up in the 'do **** all about it' tray. To that end, (and I have argued for this on these boards) it can be said that crumbs of solace such as the much vaunted Operational Welfare Package offsets some of the woe, but it doesn't emoiliate the anger, disillusionment and disappointment felt when this fabulous instrument of personnel management called TOPMAST strips your best assets from you and leaves you with a 'manage the gaps yourselves, you *****' answer, when Fountain Lake/Weston Mill is perennially empty, when your Starboard Spey is OPDEFed and you're struggling to get any sense or logic from some dumbassed duty officer who couldn't give a fat rats arse what your problems are, when you sit in defence watches happy to do your job, but less happy to fight a war for some avaricious, greedy ******* liars sat shuffling Cabinet notes many miles away.

The cloud sits there to protect them from us and our problems. Many say 'they drip...but they stay in the mob' which is as comptemptible as it is off message with 'the finest armed forces in the world' shite you hear sliding from our great leader's lips when we do him another favour. It's not about dripping, it's about what 'they' can do for 'us', possibly this nation's greatest marketable asset. If it takes an association, or a federation to punch a hole in this cloud, then let it be. My question to the First Sea Lord is, how long do you think it is viable to ask the armed forces to do the willing of dubious organisations when they themselves are being serially rear-ended by the self same people? I'd also ask; how long do you imagine the cloud can last in the current climate that exists around the senior command level that prevents the patently obvious problems from being heard and addressed at the higher levels?

Anda third question would probably be: when can we have our navy back?

Levers
 
Lingyai said:
brigham600 said:
Maxi_77 said:
Retention has always been a problem, but not with the more senior people, but about the 30 age range. The big problem also has tended to be the sea/shore ratio, particularly when people start to give the impression of settling down and having a family.

Peter

Retention is now starting to hit the senior aspect as well. I am one of many CPO's who have recently left or are leaving in quite large droves. I think you would be quite surprised just how many SR's are leaving nowadays.
I have even known WO's putting their notice in, can you imagine getting to CPO/WO and getting out? Something must be rotten.... I came out after 17, just didn't want to stay in a job that was starting to suck.

Regarding the WO /CPO resignations----well as a WO after two years you can resign--pension preserved etc the majority of the guys I know in the past are ex Navy and working doing the same job[without the blue suit and hassle ] for a lot more dosh than the pusser can give them!!And--no sea time!!
 
A good start would be :

Despite the recent "dropped" commitments, it is clear that there is insufficient funding in the defence budget for even the reduced lot we have left and that capital replacement of ships will need more money (particularly RDEL) as will sorting out retention.

Rather than acquiesce to yet another round of studies that will try to get a quart from a pint pot, will he (and the rest of the service chiefs, cos it applies across the board) demand more money (a pittance compared to obscene sums pissed away at the NHS & "welfare") or resign en masse.

Oh and if he has any time left, get that f*ckwit Lord Drayson to explain why giving BigAndExpensiveSystems a virtual monopoly on defence manufacturing is in the interests of the UK..........
 
Big and Expensive Systems only make what the Service asks for.If the specifiers knew what they wanted then the Big and Expensive would not be as big, or expensive
 
mophead said:
Big and Expensive Systems only make what the Service asks for.If the specifiers knew what they wanted then the Big and Expensive would not be as big, or expensive

Having been on both sides there is a lot of truth in that, and if the Messybeast did not have a virtual monopoly most of the kit they make would be coming from the US or France, countries that know how to protect their indigenous suppliers.

Peter
 
Maxi_77 said:
mophead said:
Big and Expensive Systems only make what the Service asks for.If the specifiers knew what they wanted then the Big and Expensive would not be as big, or expensive

Having been on both sides there is a lot of truth in that, and if the Messybeast did not have a virtual monopoly most of the kit they make would be coming from the US or France, countries that know how to protect their indigenous suppliers.

Peter
And refuse to supply the kit just when you need it most.as they did in the FI case.
 
The main problem is also the fact that when the big expensive companies ask the bigwigs what is required, the bigwigs ALWAYS fail to question the operators to what is 'actually' required.

I still refer to them as 'the good ideas club' who have never worked at the coalface and fail to appreciate the ergonomics required to use certain systems. I am talking about comms equipment here, just to be specific, but am sure it applies to just about anything procured by the idiots brigade.

You only have to look at the Type 45 project to understand the first of class will not have any of the new comms systems on it and will need replacing during its first DP to add more cost to it. Arse!
 

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