Topics for the First Sea Lord

[Scoutuk]

If you had the opportunity to put a question to the First Sea Lord, what would it be?

I need to research current issues by the end of June and would appreciate any input. Thanks.

 

[Maxi_77]

Does the Chiefs of Staff have any plans for a coup with the objective of returning the country to democratic government.

Peter

 

[hammockhead]

Would he resign if Gordon scrapped/shrank the CVFs.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Is there any chance of either restoring the old RNXS or setting up a Royal Veterans Navy, for those of us not fit enough for regular service (ie, we would fail pulheems) but are still willing to serve? Those of us with completely obsolete skills could learn something new. I've always been curious to know what Stokers did apart from unbolting and unscrewing things, turning valves and sunning themselves on deck whilst everyone else worked for their living. :lol:

 

[CheefTiff]

Do we actually need a Trident replacement or would we be better spending the money on more ships, more men and better equipment ?

 

[Old_Hand]

What is being done to improve the retention of young service personnel. I know of a lot of people who join up full of the intentions of making a career in the RN and then lose interest very quickly and leave after 3 or 4 years?.

 

[ORACLE]

Those of us with completely obsolete skills could learn something new. I've always been curious to know what Stokers did apart from unbolting and unscrewing things, turning valves and sunning themselves on deck whilst everyone else worked for their living. :lol:

I would tell the 1SL (and Noz) that us Stokers 'stoked'. :wink:

 

[sootblower]

Got to defend the stokers. Its the ME Management that spends the time sorting out deep prerservation and maintenance for the upperdeck parts of ship that get neglected by the warfare department. When did a part of ship officer last take an interest in his part of ship? About week 4 of a 4 week repair period the Logistics Branch usually clutch into the fact that there is some work going on and try to squeeze a new galley in .However we are all part of a team that should together for the common good. You take your chances when you chooses your branches. (Wish I had been a WAFU)

As for the 1SL issue, things like retention, CVF, Trident have already been discussed at various levels by people invited in from the FLEET. This was at Comprehensive Spending Review 2007 meetings. One common thread that came out was that our lords and masters are not fully aware of the cluster TopMast is and that retention is an issue across many branches. Its about time there was some open and honest reporting up the chain and we start admitting to failures of the systems in place. Toeing the company line does little except undermine morale (and ensure someones promotion).

 

[Lingyai]

What is being done to improve the retention of young service personnel. I know of a lot of people who join up full of the intentions of making a career in the RN and then lose interest very quickly and leave after 3 or 4 years?.

One thing they should ask is why most seafarers including my industry can claim back 100% tax if out of UK for 183 days per year, why doesn't Jack? I was once told it is because he is a crown servant??? What bollocks, if anyone should get this perk it is those who fight for their country.

 

[Skunkmiester]

How much wood can a wood chuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

 

[Fighting_Sailor]

As it happens, 1SL will be addressing a course I am on this week with an opportunity for questions. Suggestions welcome.

 

[Maxi_77]

As for the 1SL issue, things like retention, CVF, Trident have already been discussed at various levels by people invited in from the FLEET. This was at Comprehensive Spending Review 2007 meetings. One common thread that came out was that our lords and masters are not fully aware of the cluster TopMast is and that retention is an issue across many branches. Its about time there was some open and honest reporting up the chain and we start admitting to failures of the systems in place. Toeing the company line does little except undermine morale (and ensure someones promotion).

Actually I suspect that the top brass or at least the people very close to them do know what is going on, but in this day and age standing up and saying the minister is lying which is what you would have to do is a career and pension limiting excercise. Any way the minister would reply with facts conjured up by the civil service that evry thing was infact OK and said admiral was merely misinformed. To the present government black is white and failure is success.

Retention has always been a problem, but not with the more senior people, but about the 30 age range. The big problem also has tended to be the sea/shore ratio, particularly when people start to give the impression of settling down and having a family.

Peter

 

[brigham600]

Retention has always been a problem, but not with the more senior people, but about the 30 age range. The big problem also has tended to be the sea/shore ratio, particularly when people start to give the impression of settling down and having a family.

Peter

Retention is now starting to hit the senior aspect as well. I am one of many CPO's who have recently left or are leaving in quite large droves. I think you would be quite surprised just how many SR's are leaving nowadays.

 

[Lingyai]

Retention has always been a problem, but not with the more senior people, but about the 30 age range. The big problem also has tended to be the sea/shore ratio, particularly when people start to give the impression of settling down and having a family.

Peter

Retention is now starting to hit the senior aspect as well. I am one of many CPO's who have recently left or are leaving in quite large droves. I think you would be quite surprised just how many SR's are leaving nowadays.

I have even known WO's putting their notice in, can you imagine getting to CPO/WO and getting out? Something must be rotten.... I came out after 17, just didn't want to stay in a job that was starting to suck.

 

[NozzyNozzer]

Actually I suspect that the top brass or at least the people very close to them do know what is going on, but in this day and age standing up and saying the minister is lying which is what you would have to do is a career and pension limiting excercise. Any way the minister would reply with facts conjured up by the civil service that evry thing was infact OK and said admiral was merely misinformed. To the present government black is white and failure is success.

Peter

I am not so sure Peter. My friend Seacat has done some historical research looking at Hansards dating back to the 1890s and found that there is a long tradition of facts experienced by members of the lower deck not being known to very senior officers, civil servants or MPs - though admittedly his research has focussed on social issues and researching stuff on the G place, for me! My favourite example concerns cutlery or the lack or forks, which were assumed to be issued by the top brass and MPs. That revelation occured just before the Great War! Still, little seems to change.

Nozzy.

 

[Maxi_77]

I would agree that when it come to what the bigwigs consider as minor such as cuttlery etc the message very often fails to get through, but manpower planning is something that I know certainly used to be considered at veryhigh levels having had to write reports on why seamn xyz had not re-engaged at the end of his 9, or in my own case give my reasons in writing for requesting to be placed on the retired list.

It is bad enough for their lordships not to have enough ships, but it is even worse not to be able to send the ones you have to sea because you don't have the men and women.

Peter

 

[come_the_day]

I would ask 1SL to be as straightforward as Boycey was and keep telling the politicos the truth, whether or not they wish to hear it. However, I also believe that the senior Civil Service is part of the problem. Self Service is a better description, from what I have seen.

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

I seem to remember that Adml Boyce pointed out to the PM that he could not fulfill his commitments within his Budget.
Our glorious PM referred him to the Chancellor of the Exchequer!

Given the same circumstances, what would be Sir Jonathan's retort to such a spineless reply?

 

[Levers_Aligned]

Gents: Let's be realistic here for a moment. There is a structure of governmental procedure that exists high in the ether above our heads, and you will be hard pressed to find anyone bold enough to breach this to step on toes. There are a myriad of other considerations to take into account as well, the main thing being the economy. The armed services, represented by whichever colour of uniform at CDS level will never have the political clout to challenge parliament because most MPs have wider interest topics (such as jobs, industry, their own ******* livleyhoods) and certainly not the armed forces (except when needed, of course) That said, there exists a thick cloud of obfuscation which prevents the pain and grief stories ever reaching the higher domains...the grass roots tales of manpower gapping, shockingly poor materiel support, ships well-past their useful lives, depleted morale and rank incompetence brought about by ambivalence and short cuts. It's all 'yada-yada' and 'I hear what you're saying' material, and stuff that definately ends up in the 'do **** all about it' tray. To that end, (and I have argued for this on these boards) it can be said that crumbs of solace such as the much vaunted Operational Welfare Package offsets some of the woe, but it doesn't emoiliate the anger, disillusionment and disappointment felt when this fabulous instrument of personnel management called TOPMAST strips your best assets from you and leaves you with a 'manage the gaps yourselves, you *****' answer, when Fountain Lake/Weston Mill is perennially empty, when your Starboard Spey is OPDEFed and you're struggling to get any sense or logic from some dumbassed duty officer who couldn't give a fat rats arse what your problems are, when you sit in defence watches happy to do your job, but less happy to fight a war for some avaricious, greedy ******* liars sat shuffling Cabinet notes many miles away.

The cloud sits there to protect them from us and our problems. Many say 'they drip...but they stay in the mob' which is as comptemptible as it is off message with 'the finest armed forces in the world' shite you hear sliding from our great leader's lips when we do him another favour. It's not about dripping, it's about what 'they' can do for 'us', possibly this nation's greatest marketable asset. If it takes an association, or a federation to punch a hole in this cloud, then let it be. My question to the First Sea Lord is, how long do you think it is viable to ask the armed forces to do the willing of dubious organisations when they themselves are being serially rear-ended by the self same people? I'd also ask; how long do you imagine the cloud can last in the current climate that exists around the senior command level that prevents the patently obvious problems from being heard and addressed at the higher levels?

Anda third question would probably be: when can we have our navy back?

Levers

 

[Greenie]

Retention has always been a problem, but not with the more senior people, but about the 30 age range. The big problem also has tended to be the sea/shore ratio, particularly when people start to give the impression of settling down and having a family.

Peter

Retention is now starting to hit the senior aspect as well. I am one of many CPO's who have recently left or are leaving in quite large droves. I think you would be quite surprised just how many SR's are leaving nowadays.

I have even known WO's putting their notice in, can you imagine getting to CPO/WO and getting out? Something must be rotten.... I came out after 17, just didn't want to stay in a job that was starting to suck.

Regarding the WO /CPO resignations----well as a WO after two years you can resign--pension preserved etc the majority of the guys I know in the past are ex Navy and working doing the same job[without the blue suit and hassle ] for a lot more dosh than the pusser can give them!!And--no sea time!!