Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press gang

slim

War Hero
The Prime minister in his wisdom has apologised for Britain's part in the slave trade which ended in 1807.
What about the men who were pressed into service by the press gangs, this didn't end until 1815 and even then it hadn't been removed from the statute books. Surely these men were just as much victims of slavery as their black brothers.
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Like everything else that idiot does, it's just not thought through. I sincerely hope that he doesn't involve Her Majesty in this lunatic gesture.

Will the slave descendents thank us for removing them from the West African s**t hole and giving them a chance to improve their lot?

The point about Press Gangs is a very good parallel. Maybe it doesn't matter if it's been done to your own.
 

andym

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Have the Americans apologised?
 

clanky

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

slim said:
The Prime minister in his wisdom has apologised for Britain's part in the slave trade which ended in 1807.
What about the men who were pressed into service by the press gangs, this didn't end until 1815 and even then it hadn't been removed from the statute books. Surely these men were just as much victims of slavery as their black brothers.
Got a link?
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

clanky said:
slim said:
The Prime minister in his wisdom has apologised for Britain's part in the slave trade which ended in 1807.
What about the men who were pressed into service by the press gangs, this didn't end until 1815 and even then it hadn't been removed from the statute books. Surely these men were just as much victims of slavery as their black brothers.
Got a link?
Link for press gang at:

http://www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/broadside7.html

Link for Tony Blair is not needed as its been reported by bbc news
 

clanky

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

slim said:
clanky said:
slim said:
The Prime minister in his wisdom has apologised for Britain's part in the slave trade which ended in 1807.
What about the men who were pressed into service by the press gangs, this didn't end until 1815 and even then it hadn't been removed from the statute books. Surely these men were just as much victims of slavery as their black brothers.
Got a link?
Link for press gang at

http//www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/broadside7.html

Link for Tony Blair is not needed as its been reported by bbc news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6185176.stm

The above link (from he BBC) states that Blair has not formally apologised for the slave trade! While I'm all for challenging the theoretical status quo, surely we should give the PM chance to actually issue an apology before we start slating him for it!
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

In all honesty 200 years ago life for the average Briton was considerably worse than that of the black slaves. I know that many died in the sugar fields but generally a slave was thought more highly of as he/she was a valuable commodity. The British worker working in agriculture was little more than a slave with the owner providing food & housing and a little money. Coal and tin minors worked in hazardous conditions for very small rewards, and when the industrial age came conditions deteriorated even more. If the descendants of slavery are really pissed off then perhaps they should ask for repatriation to the country of their ancestors. However I do not think that the line of volunteers would stretch very far. Most of these descendants are living much richer lives that those led by their brothers and sisters who evaded capture and slavery. Yes slavery is and always was wrong. But to an equal extent so was the exploitation of native Britons
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

slim said:
Most of these descendants are living much richer lives that those led by their brothers and sisters who evaded capture and slavery.
Hell! wish I'd said that.
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

And all men should apologise to all women for the millennia of exploitation and degradation heaped upon them by cruel patriarchy...

oh yes!!!
 

andym

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

golden_rivet said:
And all men should apologise to all women for the millennia of exploitation and degradation heaped upon them by cruel patriarchy...

oh yes!!!
NO!And stop rattling your chains! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

RoofRat

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Rivit are you male or female? Just out of curiousity. :oops: :lol:
RoofRat
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Golden Rivet is indeed a female RoofRat. I made the same error as you and assumed GR was a male - though she does sound a bit like a gay bloke sometimes. :lol:

I am surprised any apologies have been made for slavery from our Christian PM - after all the Bible is clear in both OT & NT that owning slaves is acceptable. A Christian should ideally treat his slaves justly or free them, depending upon which NT text you are reading at the time. All the Abrahamic religions religious texts promote the acceptability of enslavement. Moreover only a couple of years ago British evangelicals stated that slavery was in fact an early form of welfare state, and should therefore be commended. I remain unconvinced myself.

In a sense, what does the concept of slavery entail? In Tsarist Russia until the emancipation of the Serfs, they were de facto (& de jure) slaves. The same was true of the indiginous European populations in feudal times when most of the populations were the property of their feudal Lords. Slavery still exists in several parts of the World including Arabia. The CoE itself owned a plantation and a large number of men, women and children as slaves who were treated no better than their counterparts owned by the laity. Various Bishops had slaves looking after them in their Palaces on English soil.

And what of bonded labour (as distinct from slavery). The NT refers to them as servants - their status suggests that they were entrapped slaves in everything but name in many cases.

What of British children transported from childrens' homes and orphanages to be used as slave labour (during their childhood) in the Empire and later Commonwealth?

The main way of marking the event is by staging various exhibitions and starting to discuss the topic again in schools. When I was in school we explored both slavery and the Press Gangs and their morality (or otherwise).
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

It seems that he isn't apologising but merely expressing sorrow. This man should be a barrister!

From the Today Programme; "in an article for the New Nation newspaper, the prime minister said it had been "profoundly shameful". But Mr Blair stopped short of issuing a full apology, which some commentators have demanded. The government is reportedly setting out its plans for next year's bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade".

Anybody taking bets on how long before he clarifies his "sorrow"?
 

RoofRat

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

:?
Golden Rivet is indeed a female RoofRat. I made the same error as you and assumed GR was a male - though she does sound a bit like a gay bloke sometimes. Laughing
Cheers ACC
Her Avatar reminded me of a WREN driver we had at an Air station in the 60's who changed branches, (so to speak) :wink:

Bliar can apologise for anything, who believes anything he sez anyway?
RoofRat
 
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Always_a_Civvy said:
Golden Rivet is indeed a female RoofRat. I made the same error as you and assumed GR was a male - though she does sound a bit like a gay bloke sometimes. :lol:

I am surprised any apologies have been made for slavery from our Christian PM - after all the Bible is clear in both OT & NT that owning slaves is acceptable. A Christian should ideally treat his slaves justly or free them, depending upon which NT text you are reading at the time. All the Abrahamic religions religious texts promote the acceptability of enslavement. Moreover only a couple of years ago British evangelicals stated that slavery was in fact an early form of welfare state, and should therefore be commended. I remain unconvinced myself.

In a sense, what does the concept of slavery entail? In Tsarist Russia until the emancipation of the Serfs, they were de facto (& de jure) slaves. The same was true of the indiginous European populations in feudal times when most of the populations were the property of their feudal Lords. Slavery still exists in several parts of the World including Arabia. The CoE itself owned a plantation and a large number of men, women and children as slaves who were treated no better than their counterparts owned by the laity. Various Bishops had slaves looking after them in their Palaces on English soil.

And what of bonded labour (as distinct from slavery). The NT refers to them as servants - their status suggests that they were entrapped slaves in everything but name in many cases.

What of British children transported from childrens' homes and orphanages to be used as slave labour (during their childhood) in the Empire and later Commonwealth?

The main way of marking the event is by staging various exhibitions and starting to discuss the topic again in schools. When I was in school we explored both slavery and the Press Gangs and their morality (or otherwise).
You are quite right slavery was a normal thing world wide until the 19th century, every race and culture and religion indulged in it. The practice was probably as old as prostitution if not older and probably predated lawyers.

The big change that came with the European imperial phase was the 'industrialisation' of the practice whch particularly in the methods of transportation was pretty close to 10 on the inhumanity scale. If TB had appologised or shown regret for that and pointed out at the same time that the UK was at the forefront also of the actions to end slavery completely it would have been better.

It is interesting that whilst the UK did outlaw slavery quite early in the 19th C it did not oulaw the practice of 'voluntary slavery' ie bonded labour till much later.

Peter
 

slim

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

In reality no apologies are needed for anything in this thread. The UK like most of the modern world has evolved in the last 200 years and what in its time was deemed acceptable is now definitely not. If Tony B was to apologise for all the wrongs which were carried out in the name of the British Empire he would be doing it for the rest of his term in office. How far back are we going to go? Will we be asking the Normans to apologise for giving Harold one in the eye or the Romans for invading us?
Many mistakes were made in history, but apologising will not help at all. The important thing is to ensure in both the present and the future these atrocities do not happen.
 

Stripey_G

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

Too true Slim..couldn't agree more....but on a lighter note (sorry, can't help it), is your "batman" into bondage labour AAC, or does "he" just do for you????
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Re: Tony Blair apologises for slave trade, What about press

You'd think the [email protected] would have the decency to apologise for what he and his incompetent brethren are doing to the forces at the minute......
 
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