Today's RN, an irrelevance......

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by angry_mac, Oct 28, 2009.

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  1. Just to start a debate, besides those plucky submariners providing our Nuclear Deterrent and hence keeping our seat at the UN Security Council, does our Royal Navy actually achieve anything substantial?
    Now Im not proposing this viewpoint from an out of date perspective. having just served 4 yrs on a T22, I have experienced all types of ops we are currently running. Nor is this deflecting away from the bloody hard work our ship's companies are doing, how FOST is overworked, the amount of time our sea going lads and lasses are doing away from home.
    From what Ive seen:-
    Drugs, in 05 we took 20 tonnes of cocaine, this has recently been beaten, but has this made a dent at all in cocaine coming into this country, and hence the crime caused by it, no. Therefore a T22/23 in Caribbean isnt really scareing the suppliers, therefore waste of time.
    Anti-piracy, seen first hand a bunch of Somalians slotted by Royal, but you only need to look at recent headlines, plus the current stats to see we arent achieving anything(admittedly restricted by ROE and legality).
    The reason I put this forward, is currently working in a joint environment, and to be honest I cant justify to my colleagues the reasoning behind 2 aircraft carriers and subsequent T45s(Billion pound white elephants) seeing we are so short of helicopters/panthers/jackals etc.
    Sorry but what Ive achieved in the last 4 yrs on my last ship, although made good headlines, never made a difference.
     
  2. The Navy provides a visible presence around the world. It is a visual way of displaying politcal intentions. The unseen but effective use of the nuclear capable submarine have provided UK with a deterrent both before and after the cold war. Mutually Assured Destruction to date has worked and as a country which has been in the past a force for good,it should not be discarded lightly.This country needs an effective and mobile capable fleet if it is to ensure our countrys interests around the globe.
    We withdrew or were in the process of withdrawing the Endurance from the FI in 1981. Look what happened in 1982 as a direct result of this country not enforcing its protectorates.
    If this country wants an effective foreign policy it needs to have the tools to enforce its wishes should it be necessary you cant do that,if you are an island nation without unsecured sea lanes and the ability to protect your interests. What is more is that it needs to be seen, something which submarines are very effective at not doing. An all round capable fleet is the only way to achieve this countrys goals. QED. Of course I could be wrong. :wink:
     
  3. What are you having for your tea in five Friday's time?

    Chances are you don't know, as you don't know what you'll be doing then but you'll buy groceries for future meals. The same as we don't know what will be required of our forces in the future, we have to procure for all eventuallities. Unlike a helicopter, a ship takes a hell of a lot longer to build and fit out. Also aircraft need permission to use other countries airspace, with an aircraft carrier this negates a lot of diplomatic negotiations, and supply chains, as a ship will carry most aircraft spares, rather than having to have them flown out.
     
  4. Did you join to make a difference??? I joined up to get drunk in as many foreign places as poss and to shag as many dirt women as poss.

    Maybe one should lighten up a bit cos one thing for sure is this........you will not make a difference.
     
  5. Without the RN, Troops would not be able to deploy.

    Without second line support such as Repair, NDT, HUMS, Service Modifications and Tool Control, Ops would suffer massively.

    The RN may not be engaging in battle at sea but they are a vital part of Ops in addition to providing us with security should a sea-going battle occur and hauling in drugs.

    I have lived in an area where drugs are a problem and believe me, the users do feel it when a huge quantity is siezed and their sources dry up.

    I believe that the work of the RN is vastly under-rated.
     
  6. True, BUT we are no longer getting one aircraft carrier it is now to be a LHA, and if you believe we will get a second you are in fairy land

    Also what use is a carrier without escorts?

    The RN in Helmund, well yes but only with logistics and meds, this could be met by increasing the manpower in the ARMY

    Apart from nuclear capable boats the RN is now pretty pointless and toothless

    1982 was almost a disaster, we managed to assemble a fleet, that was 27 years ago, what could we muster now, NOTHING

    Jack McH
     
  7. Keep it coming guys, trelawny you are quite correct, lesson from history, to effect a your foreign policy on other nations you need an effective and powerful navy. To that point I say we dont have such a navy.
    Sparker todays global economy blows your argument out of the water, this is no longer 1935, corporations will sell their food reagrdless of governments, world wars which put our food suppply in jeopardy have been resigned to the history books, thanks to the nuclear aspect.
     
  8. As for only logs and medics in Helmand, well I'm sure all the communicators, CT's, Wafu's, and other warfare lads and lasses and engineers will be pleased to hear that.
     

  9. I think what he meant was you buy food regardless of what you are planning to eat. Meaning we need a strong navy as you never know whats coming, and I fully agree. Too many times this country has been caught wrong footed. We talk cut backs and economy whilst giving massive handouts to overseas aid. We should put our own house in order first.

    They show programs that depict thousands of Britons living like third world citizens, and then send billions overseas.
    And no I am not a BNP supporter, just a person who believes charity begins at home.
     
  10. Cheer's Rumrat, that is what I meant.
     
  11. Nice one flip flop, sure the RN medics working in Bastion arent making a difference, sure the RN aircrew providing cover in Helmand arent making a difference, sure the young lads driving convoys arent making a difference and when I go out there(possibly) I wont make a difference either.
    But I now for a fact sitting off Guzz in shitty weather making a crappy cable repair to get a SAT on a irrelevant OST with no apparent relation to the upcoming deployment chasing skiffs around a massive bit of sea is certainly a waste of taxpayers money.
     
  12. Our's not to reason why?
    Our's just to do........and die. :roll: :cry:
     
  13. :D If I could've got a SAT for making such a cable repair I'd have been a very happy bunny. :D
     
  14. Try looking at it as keeping a seat warm and providing some continuity between the previous and the next generation of sailors & ships.

    Alternatively, slash both wrists and turn in.
     
  15. I've posted similar comments elsewhere on RR but it is worth repeating (IMHO)

    The primary role of the Royal Navy is and always has been protection of British interests, not power projection, international conquest or whatever and this rather general term "protection of British interests" is deeply seated in trade.

    As an island nation over 95% of British trade is carried by sea. The British Empire was founded on developing trading partners and securing raw materials worldwide and the RN was there to ensure that these raw materials got to where they were needed to generate trade wealth for Britain.

    Nothing has changed and the many and various wars in which the RN has more than played its part have been fought to ensure that trade continues.

    If the policy makers dictate that protecting the sea lanes of communication demand carriers, submarines, frogmen with sharp sticks or whatever that is a matter for those on a higher pay scale than me but at the end of the day the reason for the existence of the RN is to protect British Trade and , even if the English Channel were to heal up and we got physically attached to the rest of Europe the RN would still never be an irrelevance because of our international/worldwide interests.
     
  16. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    angrymac wrote
    The permanent seats have nothing to do with the members being nuclear powers. We weren't nuclear/ atomic when we joined, neither was China, France or Russia. We had just won the war, that's why we called the shots.

    starboardflipflop has the radar signature of a well known RR troll. Approach with caution.
     
  17. Im still not won over by this RN provides protection for sea trade, could we seriously mount a convoy war now as per North Atlantic, no, we would have to survive on the goodwill of our Yank allies(not so goodwill seeing that we've just paid off lend-lease) who have an effective navy. Now this isnt to the detriment of our individual ship's and submarines who outperform other Nato units time and time again. To have an effective navy you need to have a large one. else we are just pissing in the wind.
    Mind you with this EUFOR that has just been created, we are in for worrying times, dissolution of NATO, with the loss of Canadians and Yanks maybe, then having such a small fleet will bear its fruit.
     
  18. 1. Who mentioned convoys? Convoys are a thing of the past especially since a good number of modern merchant ships can go a lot faster than pusser's greys (so why bunch them together into a nice fat juicy target when very often they can better protect themselves via speed?)
    2. SLOC protection is maintained as much my presence as anything else as well as good intel, sound advice to seafarers etc
    3. To have an effective navy you need to have focus - not size
    4. It doesn't really matter if you are "won over by the argument" or not - it is a fact. The RN exists to provide the capability to protect and support the interests of the UK and the primary interest that makes all else possible is the creation of wealth via trade
     
  19. wet_blobby

    wet_blobby War Hero Moderator

    So what exactly does the UK export now that needs protecting at sea? Because if the argument is turned on it's head and the UK says "yep, we'll buy that but, up to you to get it here" it kind of defeats your point Broadside.
     
  20. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    Can any merchant ship out run an SSN?
     

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