TMU process of appeals

Discussion in 'Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting' started by PestleAndMortar, Jan 9, 2014.

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  1. Evening all. I'm off for an aircrew medical next month but I had a wrist fracture in July. I was only in the cast for 4 weeks and the doctor signed me fit at the hospital. I have no problems with it now and have more strength than I did before and can do press ups with no problem. The navy guidelines say no fractures in the last 12 months but I have been given a start date ? Would this lead to my application being cancelled ? Signed off as TMU ? Or could I appeal and prove there is no problem ?
  2. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    You can appeal against being made Permanently Medically Unsuitable (PMU) if you dispute the diagnosis of a condition with qualified professional evidence that the diagnosis is incorrect, but not against the the statutory medical standards for entry. If you broke a bone of that type, there's a mandatory period which must elapse before you can be passed fit.

    The reason behind this particular medical standard is based on statistical medical evidence (gained over the last century, or so) indicates the minimum period of full rehabilitation to complete, which precludes an increased risk of recurrence, complications or restrictions, takes about a year.

    Unless you have a comparable data bank of credible evidence gained over a similar period of statistical data, you have two hopes, one of which is Bob.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  3. As I'm not due to enter training til September that would be 14 months after the injury. Would this make any difference ?
  4. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Generally, you cannot be passed fit and complete selection, until it's 12 months from completion of treatment - Check with your AFCO.
  5. Sorry angrydoc wasn't so clear. I meant it as I'm lifting heavier weights at the gym now than I was before.
  6. Doc, I'm no osteopath and dont have a table of Youngs modulus for previously fractured and unmolested bone, but I thought that the ossification around the fracture did cause it to be "stronger" at the break itself, if healed and satisfactorily aligned? (This might just be TV doctor twaddle so please correct with some forum doctorin)
    I can imagine, like most materials, stress raisers, incompletely healed breaks and other defects would introduce potential weakness and possibility of re-injury, hence the service requiring a bit more than the 8-12 weeks for the typical broken arm to have the cast removed and be considered "healed". Notwithstanding other diseases, osteoporosis, calcium/vit D deficency showing themselves, even Rickets is making a comeback, are there other factors that might drive the need for a 12 mo wait period?

    Also, I recall more than one guy being back classed 14 weeks for a broken leg sustained in basic training, then there's hunter troop for the RM, is that no longer the case, or was it never the case and I don't have the full story from those that were injured? Not wishing to completely thread divert from the OPs case, just genuinely interested.

    Ninj, do you have any specific data you can share on why the wait period is 12 mo? I mean something like there is a 50% reoccurence of injuries at the 3mo period, 25% at 6 mo etc. Again, I am not quibbling the validity or depth of research, just wondering if you could expand on the basic statement.
  7. Like Angrydoc - but without his medical knowledge - I did wonder at the apparent suggestion that a healed broken bone might be stronger than an unbroken one.

    Could there be a similarity with the idea that a metal girder drilled with circular holes is stronger than a solid one?
  8. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I don't have the medical stats as I'm not a medically qualified individual, however what I would suggest is the medical standards for entry differ to those applied to those already serving.

    The logic is not necessarily because the service is motivated by compassion, but rather by cost. For those yet to join, the risk of recurrence, restricted movement and further complications can best be determined in the individuals time whereas those already serving need to be re-employed or discharged as quickly as possible to minimise cost.

    With regard the strength of broken bones in the area of the fracture after healing, even as a former clanky I'd recognise the possibility of weakening either side, misalignment, tissue damage, restricted mobility, internal ironmongery, etc., etc.

    The service determines the standards & even if they are disputed, they are not up for negotiation by applicants unfortunately.

    Different bits (fingers, toes & nose, nose & toes , "All together now...." etc.,) have different timescales applied.
  9. I have recently spoke to a few recent entries who had similar problems and as the start date was outside of the 12 months they were passed
  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    That's certainly a first on me & to be honest I'm inclined to take it with a pinch of sea dust - best bet? Talk to your AFCO.
  11. Pestle&Mortar

    Have you actually told your CA that you fractured your wrist last summer?
  12. I thought about this after posting and reached the same conclusion. If the injury were to occur in training then its our problem, and up to the scablifters what standards to apply to pass the patient fit.

    Absolutely agree there Ninj, human assets are expensive to run and being opdef/gapped for 3~4 mo is a big cost to bear. Civvy companies use short and long term disability insurance and supplementary private medical insurance to mitigate the costs to business. Then as you rightly point out, you get your asset back bent or with a perm list to stbd. Then it becomes a question of what you have invested in time and training, then perhaps the compassionate grounds with our veterans for example.

    I also pondered if need for pins n bolts would be a factor, and associated tissue damage in joints, fat pads etc. I think as you pointed out earlier, it would be misleading to assess range of motion until complete healing has taken place.

    Haha, and that's the most important thing for any noob lurkers to take from this. Like any employer, the RN can set its requirements out as long as they are legally sound.

    That would make sense. Femoral break vs a busted nose.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. That's the need for time explained, the difference between getting the cast off to the lump dissapearing and injury being considered fully healed. Thanks Doc.
  14. Interesting comment P&M, but I doubt the accuracy unless the decision was authorised by Naval Recruiting HQ. Like NS I would take a handful of salt.

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