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Times: "Army To Shed 3,000 More Jobs Amid Heavy Political Fighting"

soleil

War Hero
"The Army proposes to axe almost 3,000 soldiers in a new round of redundancies in January. The job losses have been drawn up despite concerns that a push to expand the Territorial Army is failing to hit recruitment targets.

More sackings are certain to embarrass the Prime Minister, who has come under fire for the scale of cuts.

Armed Forces documents seen by The Times reveal friction between the Ministry of Defence and Downing Street over how the full-time Army should be shrunk to an affordable size.

David Cameron is increasingly sensitive to the bad publicity that surrounded soldiers losing their jobs, an Army source said. More than 11,000 military personnel have been pushed out in three rounds of redundancy since 2011.

The coalition Government has demanded that troop numbers fall from 102,000 to 82,000 by the end of the decade. But the documents show how the Army is worried that Downing Street might intervene to prevent more job losses.

No 10 would prefer to see troop numbers fall through retirements or people leaving of their own accord, Army sources say. Military chiefs want the freedom to choose those who will be axed, in order to shape the new Army.

The Armed Forces Redundancy Steering Group wrote in July that the Army would lose between 2,500 and 2,900 jobs in the latest round of cuts.

A proposed announcement is set for January, with confirmation of the final number losing their jobs expected in May.

Colonel Ian Brazier, a former Army officer who heckled Philip Hammond at the Tory party conference this week over military cuts, said he was worried about the latest plan because the drive to increase the size of the TA by 10,000 soldiers was not working. “The ruthless cutting continues but the reserves supposed to be plugging the gap have not yet been recruited,” he said.

Up to 150 RAF staff and 17 from the Royal Navy – all medical and dental officers – would also be made redundant, according to the internal document, which was marked “Restricted – Management”.

The RAF and the Navy, which have already shed thousands of personnel since 2011, could reveal their redundancy schedule next month, though the documents show concern about possible political interference over the timing of any news.

The military was worried that Downing Street would demand that job losses across all three services were announced together. The documents suggest that the MoD kept No 10 informed from the start so that ministers were aware of what was proposed.

Colonel Richard Kemp, a former Army officer, said that the MoD should focus more on lobbying David Cameron for extra money to retain soldiers rather than looking at ways to ensure that the redundancy programme can go ahead.

“We know there is a manning crisis,” he said. “The future structures of the reserves are going very wrong and are proving that they are not workable. More redundancies sends out the message that the Armed Forces is a declining trade.”

An Army source said: “Half a decade of rolling cuts ... are taking their toll on Army morale. The Army is haemorrhaging its best people.”

A spokeswoman for the MoD confirmed that another round of redundancies was being considered but that no decision had been made.

“These redundancies are not new and were announced in the Strategic Defence Security Review in October 2010 and again in July 2012,” she said.

“Following last year’s redundancies which were 84 per cent voluntary, we were clear that a fourth tranche, affecting Army personnel and a small number of medical and dental personnel from the Navy and RAF, could be needed. Outflow and recruitment rates will be taken into account before any decisions are taken on any final redundancies.”

On the question of political interference, a defence source said: “It is only natural that ministers would take a close interest in Armed Forces redundancies and the necessary recruitment process as we restructure the Armed Forces; however the entire Armed Forces Redundancy Programme is led by the three single Services. They are responsible for their own redundancies and ultimately decide on how many people are made redundant.” "

Army to shed 3,000 more jobs amid heavy political fighting | The Times
 

Sumo

War Hero
Mark we are heading for a coastal navy and dad's army, what's the point of two carriers if we can not afford the fuel?:icescream:
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Reductions in manpower were announced a long time ago. For the most part, with the exception of the Army, the redundancies have already been made. These upcoming reductions are not new or additional.

I'd certainly agree there is a massive shortfall of recruiting targets being met for reservists as there was an arrogant assumption that those regulars made redundant would join the reserves. Not surprisingly, they haven't and already we're seeing applications from regulars wishing to rejoin the regular service and being accepted.
 
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Reductions in manpower were announced a long time ago. For the most part, with the exception of the Army, the redundancies have already been made. These upcoming reductions are not new or additional.

I'd certainly agree there is a massive shortfall of recruiting targets being met for reservists as there was an arrogant assumption that those regulars made redundant would join the reserves. Not surprisingly, they haven't and already we're seeing applications from regulars wishing to rejoin the regular service and being accepted.

A lot more recent leavers are likely to be "mail dropped" to encourage them back. The trouble is, for engineers in particular, we're not exactly offering a "competitive package"; if the reason you left is because it was shite, and then it appears to have got only worse, why would you want to come back (unless of course you're a WESM!?)
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
By regulars, I meant regular redundees, but agreed, the only way to entice people to rejoin or not to leave, is to offer sizeable cash incentives.
 

Sumo

War Hero
By regulars, I meant regular redundees, but agreed, the only way to entice people to rejoin or not to leave, is to offer sizeable cash incentives.
Think I have to disagree, only those in need or driven by cash, would or those who cannot survive without pusser blanket. Unless they change the terms&c it will still be shite for years after the money runs out. The ones who are hardest pressed, good at their jobs will get work outside leaving behind some of those you wish had left. Happened in the 70,s & 90,s
 

cjg375

Lantern Swinger
Think I have to disagree, only those in need or driven by cash, would or those who cannot survive without pusser blanket. Unless they change the terms&c it will still be shite for years after the money runs out. The ones who are hardest pressed, good at their jobs will get work outside leaving behind some of those you wish had left. Happened in the 70,s & 90,s

Well the high and mighty bosses have already said they won't try to routinely challenge civvy street on cash terms and unless something changes politically and we have a massive reduction in commitments the ts&cs ain't gonna change any time soon, so where do we go from there? Be interesting to see what this Project Faraday thingy I've seen posters about says. Think its meant to be about remodelling the engineering world to save it. Not sure though. Not a lot of info yet. We'll see on Oct 15th I suppose.


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Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Think I have to disagree, only those in need or driven by cash, would or those who cannot survive without pusser blanket. Unless they change the terms&c it will still be shite for years after the money runs out. The ones who are hardest pressed, good at their jobs will get work outside leaving behind some of those you wish had left. Happened in the 70,s & 90,s
How should the T&C be changed to make the job more palatable, do you reckon? Would it be cheaper?
 

Sumo

War Hero
Who the **** is Mark?

See what happens when one has a dysfunctional brain, in my head i clearly wrote mark my words, but obviously my brain forgot to tell my typing fingers? Note to oneself have a word with oneself to sort out stupid mistakes, done it won’t happen again?:nike:
 

Sumo

War Hero
Damn good point Sumo, ( not sure who Mark is )

If only I had used the saying correctly first time round, it would have been a very subtle link to an old English character that used the phrase, and link into my suggestion to an home guard?
Mark my words: Mrs Joan Bland will be Ms Yana Mintoff before the year ... episode when Captain Mainwaring (pronounced mannering)
:glasses2:
 

AAF

War Hero
If only I had used the saying correctly first time round, it would have been a very subtle link to an old English character that used the phrase, and link into my suggestion to an home guard?
Mark my words: Mrs Joan Bland will be Ms Yana Mintoff before the year ... episode when Captain Mainwaring (pronounced mannering)
:glasses2:
Poet Mark Mywords was a regular on The Tube, shame that prog went to the wall.
 

Sumo

War Hero
How should the T&C be changed to make the job more palatable, do you reckon? Would it be cheaper?

That’s the problem the job is not an easy one to do, sometimes it is all good when you get the draft/job you want. To get bods to do the crap roles is difficult, throwing money is part of the solution but surely not the only one, as I was leaving they were looking at the Harmony rules, but I guess these did not work for shortage categories.
The other main thing that those who choose to leave have not idea about is just how difficult it is outside to find work if you want to stay put in one area, if you are willing to commuter or re-locate it can be a bit easier but you do not have drafty/appointer sorting your next job out, you have to get out there and find work, so for many leavers it’s a culture shock and they soon find out that the grass is not any greener and many end up doing shite jobs. The amount of early leavers I see out in industry almost all regret leaving early, wishing they had stayed for the life style, comradeship, more experience, better qualification, and pension, the amount of money they were paid is not at the top of their list if on the list at all. So if you intend to stay in and someone is offering a nice little earner then you will be foolish not to take it. I chose to stay for pension but when offered redundancy that would have given me full pension and out early I applied unfortunately a shortage branch by then submarine sonar benders, I was declined, I then resolved to do pension time then out so told all bosses not to write me up for 2OE.
 
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