Thought For The Day...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by sgtpepperband, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    I saw a teenage boy laying in the street the other day - he had been stabbed. A victim of a tragic but worryingly not uncommon crime, which seems to be increasing as each month go by.

    I am not going to attempt to explain the knife and gun culture which seems to place so little value on human life, nor am I going to suggest remedies - plenty of other people have been doing that. What I do want to nail on the head is the way that an appalling act of senseless violence is used by some people to blame away all of society’s ills on immigrants.

    The first thing to say is that I have no idea where this boy was born, or for that matter where his attackers were from; all I know is that he was dying when I walked past him on my way home from work. So as far as I or anyone else knows, immigration has nothing to do with this senseless attack. That inconvenient little fact however does not stop some people from seeing the words 'black' and 'Portsmouth' and coming up with the word 'immigration'.

    Once the word immigration is mentioned then along comes other derogatory words such as 'scrounger', 'criminal', etc. S o I thought I would have an objective look at immigration. I was told by one person in the comments section of the redtop newspaper that "...the majority of immigrants are only here for the benefits." So I did a bit of research and came across a report from the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR) published in September 2007, which made for interesting reading.

    Here are a few of the inconvenient truths from the report: if you were born in Ghana, Zimbabwe or Poland you are more likely to be working than if you were born in the UK. If you are from Nigeria, Kenya, India and a whole lot of other places you are likely to be better educated than if you were born in the UK. The average person born in the UK works 36.5 hours a week, someone from Nigeria puts in 38.5 hours, a Ugandan 39.5 and a Pole does 41.5 hours. If you are from Jamaica or Uganda or India you pay more income tax than someone from the UK. If you come from India or Sri Lanka or Ghana you are less likely to be on Income Support than people born here. If you are from Pakistan or Kenya or India you are much less likely to have a council house.

    I could go on, the fact is that the majority of immigrants are here to work, are working hard and paying their taxes, the reasons they are here are that:

    1) They do the jobs that UK citizens don’t want to do like looking after the sick and elderly.

    2) They do jobs where there are skills shortages often because some people born in the UK didn’t work hard enough in school.

    3) They take jobs because there is a proportion of the population born here that doesn’t want to work and has no intention of doing so the ‘I’m on benefits brigade.'

    Now I am all for having a reasoned debate on the costs and benefits of immigration, but what I can’t stand is people blaming everything on a group that is different to you. All groups have problems and difficulties, some groups problems may go deeper than others, but rather than mudslinging at others let’s all have a look at our own communities with a critical eye and see what we can do to make them better.

  2. Well put and almost certainly 100% correct. The biggest single threat facing this country is not terrorism it's the "scrounging underclass" who believe they have a right to get paid to do "diddly squat" breed more of the same and then blame others, particularly immigrants, for the shit state the country is in.
  3. Yes, I'd agree with that comment.
    I'm Irish originally. In Ireland, immigration from Eastern Europe and other places is construed as as much 'problem' as it is in Great Britain. Yet my question to my countrymen is, how many Irishmen have gone off around the globe looking for work?
    How many of us in the RN have taken ourselves and our families off to Australia, or New Zealand etc in search of a better life?
    The fact is, if a person comes here, and takes a job, he's taken a job that someone else from here either couldn't do, or wouldn't do. If someone comes here, and earns an honest day's wage for an honest day's work, then I won't hold it against them, particularly in the current 'lazy-born-to entitlement' culture that's been fostered in the British Isles.
  4. Most people coming to the country do so with the intention of working.
    However many seem to fall into the benefits system very quickly.
    Immigration must be more tightly controlled and failed asylum seekers must be returned more quickly.
    Now having said that I believe that the biggest drain on resources are the home grown permanently claiming work shy. We now have three generations all claiming benefits having in some cases never worked.
    The benefit system is broken beyond repair and needs re-working from the bottom up.
  5. I have always felt that too many are able to claim benefits without doing much in return and the system isn't geared up to check up on them and help get all of them back to work ... assuming there are jobs available for them in the first place.

    I don't care what colour, creed or nationality you are. Unless you are physically or mentally impaired in some way and are completely unable to work you should not be able to draw benefits unless you are prepared to do something in return. With just a little thought there are probably thousands of community projects which could benefit from the additional labour and skills, even just a few hours a week, which they would otherwise not be able to afford to pay for.

    At the very least it would be an opportunity to help many of the long term unemployed regain a little self-respect whilst silencing their critics as they would in effect be earning their benefits. The trouble is that there is probably too much red tape or Health and Safety regs which would ensure this could never happen.

  6. Whilst I find Sgtpeppers post enlightening, i really have to ask about this statement

    The first thing to say is that I have no idea where this boy was born, or for that matter where his attackers were from; all I know is that he was dying when I walked past him on my way home from work. So as far as I or anyone else knows, immigration has nothing to do with this senseless attack. That inconvenient little fact however does not stop some people from seeing the words 'black' and 'Portsmouth' and coming up with the word 'immigration'.

    Did you really just walk past him? Were the Police already there?
  7. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    HTP: Yes; already enough Emergency Services attending. My involvement would not have helped...
  8. I expect a few matelots on the table would agree :D
  9. Do they? Is that from a reliable source slim?

    Sgt P's research would seem to suggest otherwise.
  10. Indeed most come with the intention of working, they almos all come from cultures where work to survive is normal, of course if they are assylum seekerts we refuse them the ability to work to support themselves, so introduce them to the concept of living off benefit. Great introduction isn't it.

    There are many good reasons for having a well regulated immigration system, but I fear that we have agovernment that will actually try and make a system work what ever the numbsculls in the Scum, Wail etc print we are stuck with what we have.

    The benefit system I agree needs sorting out and we need to give more to those that really need help and less to those who don't, of course making that choice will not be easy, one mans scrounger is anothers victim od society.
  11. I am sure everytime I watch Crimewatch my screen tends to go dark... or 99% of the wanted are coloured, sorry but its true!
  12. It's not though is it?

    Anyhow, I hear you're a dab hand at knife crime.
  13. No, no.

    I said reliable source :roll:
  14. Read the item:
    The report is quoting Home Office Figures.
    Now just because you do not like the Express or the Mail does not mean that ALL information provided by these papers is incorrect.
    There have been reports of this happening on National television also.

    This makes extremely good reading, but read it carefully.

    It was written in 2006, before the credit crunch, however its predictions are coming home.
  15. Slim the Express like almost all newspapers these days may rarely deliberately print untruths, but do consistantly omit to print data and information that does not support their editotrial view, thus their information must be suspect as it is often incomplete.

    Equally migration watch is a xenphobic organisation which is against immigration and is thus very unlikely to promote information that does not support it's view. Like many of the tree hugging organisations it employs poor maths and science to justify it's xenophobic and often racist view on life. It's published papers are thus equally suspect, for example in their paper the admitted assuming that all migrant workers were permanent where as we all know that is not the reality, and certainly several companies round here are worried that so many have gone home over the past twelve months that there will actually be a shortage of workers in some industries. (admitedly not industries that UK CHAV unemployed would consider to be 'real' work)
  16. Maxi
    I did say read the report carefully.
    The wheat has to be sorted from the chaff, but basically at the end of the day immigrants are a net loss to the country financially. Not as the government have been insisting for years improving the finncial situation.
    As for the chavs, we need an overhaul of the social security system so as to make them earn their money.
  17. The question I put is why are we asked to accept that The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) which is a UK think-tank with strong ties to the Labour party that claims to produce progressive research, is any more believable when it is there to support the current Government and clearly biased over many years to wards the Labour Party.

    IMHO the IPPR in this case are close to the truth but to just accept they are correct because one contributor claims they are is not a good way to approach any emotive discussion. The BNP or Socialist Workers Party may equally be correct if their research is not examined.

  18. You could of course read a report on Economic Migration by Centre Forum a think tank very strongly alined with the Liberal Party.

    Centre Forum

    Which I do commend to you but you of course must questions the attitude and motive of the author who by defination is Liberal as am I.

  19. Link not working Nutty :cry:

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