This is all very disappointing

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by gunnjen, Nov 19, 2007.

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  1. For somebody who's recently joined the RNR expecting a part time military career and to experience esprit de corps the British military is famed for, I find myself reading through this site and becoming utterly demoraled. And asking myself why did I bother?

    Nobody seems sure of the future of the RNR or even whether it's even necessary at all?

    The AWFP branch is laughed at by some people, heavily criticised by others and it all seems a bit experimental

    There seems to be a great deal of disatisfaction amongst the people posting on this site, not a dig at those individuals as this must be representative of the feelings within the RNR generally. Although there does seem to be a lot of in fighting between people in the know here.

    I considered the TA/RMR and RauxAF before joining the RNR, for some reason I thought the Navy's reserve contingent would be the one with the most direction. This certainly doesn't describe anything remotely resembling my presumptions.

    Indeed this is disappointing and disheartning for somebody who's just recently joined
  2. In the current climate it's pretty endemic across the military, although there are specific issues with a lack of clarity and senior level leadership within the RNR. Budgets are being systematically reduced throughout defence, and everything is being reviewed for it's contribution to the whole picture. I'd question just how informed some of the contributors are on here; buzzes and speculation are rife.

    All branches get some abuse from everyone else, but my personal view is that AWFP is an experiment that's gone badly wrong. Probably more for the thread I started on it, but I don't believe that it offers anything much which differentiates the RNR and supports the argument that the reserve service can be a force multiplier. What's needed is some clear leadership and defined direction around what the RNR can offer the RN, what we get is staff effort expended on mismanaging the R on the badges.

    I couldn't comment on the wider RNR, but in general people are more prepared to speak out about things that they're not happy with.
  3. Why do you believe AWFP is an experiment that's gone badly wrong?
  4. As I see it there was a fairly basic problem with marketing, the RNR needs to either provide something cheaper than the RN, of higher quality than the RN or niche capability which the RN can't provide on a sustainable basis.

    AWFP is not a niche, essentially everyone on board a ship is capable of fulfilling the role, so the RNR needs to be able to provide that either cheaper or to a higher quality. Higher quality is a non-starter. Ship knowledge and familiarity with procedures can't be maintained at the same level as existing ship staff, and the cost of providing SPO capabilities in the RNR is quite high.

    The RNR appears to have gone to town on AWFP as a reason for existing, de-emphasising the niche branches.

    As the RN looks at what the RNR costs what it sees are quite expensive SPO teams and a lot of people propping up the bar in units. They don't see the capability delivered by the niche branches, because nobody seems to want to talk about it.

    I think it's most unfair on those who are putting the effort into the branch, they're doing a lot of work for little thanks, but I think all that effort is going in the wrong direction.

    On a more practical note, and in this I'm purely taking views expressed here, the tasking and employment of AWFP teams does appear to be pretty haphazard; no national internal communications or coherent availability and deployment plan.

    It does sadden me as a lot of very committed people are being badly led from the centre, despite the best efforts of their local staff.
  5. I agree that AWFP is not niche and that as RNR we can't be expected to maintain the same high quality as our full time brethern - when doing RF ships knowledge is everything.

    Where we do come into our own is with providing additional resource in areas we are already doing so - I won't mention them because anybody who is already AWFP knows where our guys are being deployed currently, because we a cheaper to train than Royal and Pusser hasn't got enough people.

    I have to say that it was misold to a number of people as being seamanship + MW/Comms/Medic - that appears to have been quietly forgotten...
  8. Karma,

    Have you not got anything good to say? I love being AWFP! I can't wait to go away again!

    You're either AWFP and not happy, if so, go to requestman and change branch. Or your a different branch and should not be making BAD KARMA comments on a public forum about a branch that you're not a part of!

    Rant over!
  9. Hey, just because a few people get a sad on it does not meen the organisition is crap. You made the right choice. Stick with it. As the old saying goes "It's when the People stop complaining you want to start worrying". We all drip because we care. Putting a petty rant on RR is just a way of passing the time. Any way, going deep for a week.
  10. ooo Simmo, you are new and all shiny aren't you! It comes through in your posts. I am not saying that Karma is not new and/or shiny but you should be wary of throwing comments around about someone you know nothing about.

    PS sorry Karma! I know you are more than able to defend yourself but I couldn't help it!!
  11. I like playing with rifles, batons, gpmg's etc but i must admit it has the potential to become very very boring.

    We need something else other than just being a security guard. The RN are all trained to do it as a secondary role. why can't we. Yes we dont have as much time, but train us for that then start us on the road to something else so that the FP is always there as a secondary role.
  12. Rosina,

    No, I'm not new and shiny, although I'd like to be in some ways.
    I'm just having a quiet day at work, so I thought that I'd play.
    I didn't intend to have a go at anyone in particular, I't's just that most threads in this forum seem to be having a go at someone or something.
    We have the Div system at our use and as part of the Armed forces, we should be doing as we're told and accepting any changes, if we have a problem or concern with those changes, then use the system to relay our concerns, or leave.
    I know that with the advent of new technology, you could class the forum itself as a part of the div system. However, we jump the chain as it is read by all and sundry.
    I just wish that the forums were sometimes put to better use, i.e. chatting about our experiences, giving good advice or asking advice. However, the balance seems to be more on gripping.
    I'm sorry about my writing style, I'm not very good at this shorthand internet techy writing style! Maybe you could give me some advice?
  13. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    You are correct; there is a Divisional system (RN only; the Army/RAF do not have the same luxury). However the rules regarding making a point to your Divisional Officer are strictly controlled for a reason; there is a procedure to be followed.

    However this forum is not part of that procedure. Yes, it is read by 'all and sundry' which, in my mind, means members of the public, Government, media and other service personnel. So if you have a reasonable Divisional drip then use the correct internal procedures accordingly; do not snipe at others who input their own point of view to your comments in the public arena.
  14. The Div system? You're kidding, right? It doesn't exist..

    My divisional system used to be one LH, one PO, two CPOs, a S/LT and a LT. Now it is one LH, two LTs and an LtCdr.

    The LH is waiting until his next extension to leave. The PO and CPOs have left, the JOs aren't interested and the new to the RNR LtCdr is trying his best to keep everyone together.

    My point is that there's no one left to run the Div system in some branches and in some units. For example, you have a set number of LHs and POs in the branch UK-wide, not Unit-wide. So, in theory, you can have 5 POs in one Unit and 5 more between the other 7 or 8 Units.. some Units have no LHs or SRs. A lot of the JOs are more concerned with making their next promotion than doing anything with the branches they represent, and that leaves a bunch of JRs left to their own devices.

    A lot of those I know have been in for years, both regs and reserves. Most are considering leaving when their next extension runs out. There are comments on this forum about there being no RNR by 2010. I can believe it.

    The other thing about dripping here is that we can all support each other. Without that level of support, a lot of those here probably would have given up and handed in our notice a long time ago..
  15. Ok Shipmates, I seem to have caused a few upsets, for that I hold my hands up and apologise!
    I seem to be lucky in my unit, that we have a very good system which works, which is why, maybe, I find it hard to understand why there's so many drips. Therefore, good arguments have been made in previous posts. And the need for posting the drips.
    I'd just like to read about a happy RNR

    Sorry for the misunderstanding. I didn't intend to imply that the forum was officially part of the div system, but what is clear from the reactions to my last post is that some units don't have a good system, therefore their drips are being posted here and going from the top down and not the other way around.
    I can't speak for the RAF, but I can for the Army, when I joined them full time in 1986, there was a div system, but was given a different name 'The Chain of Command' but worked basically the same.
  16. I understand your frustration...there isnt a single unit that hasnt had div problems and the number of ratings with no reports, half finished reports etc etc are more than you can swing a stick at and yes for sure it has impacted on retention..but!!!

    1) Your DO doesnt have to come from your branch it helps but not a necessity and the structure doesnt have to be LH/SR/ helps but its not the end of the earth!

    2) If you have leading hands treading water until they leave not pulling their weight then I'd suggest you need to have a word with your DO about it. Anyone who has done a command course recently will know that LH's are an integral part of the div system more than ever..if you have a LH who isnt prepared to embrace that for whatever reason then they should be severley rebriefed, disrated or shown the door!

    Whether it works or not it is as much your duty to try and put it right as it is a SPB said there ia set route for these types of thing via a representation to the CO if you feel you have a suggestion to change the system or state a formal complaint dont just sit back and take it...!!

    I cant encourage you to make a complaint but just bear in mind!

    A formal complaint will be passed up the chain of command until such times as YOU feel that you have received a satisfactory answer from your CO right up to the MOD itself. Im not saying it would get that far but at the end of the day it is a process that you can keep a track of and you will get feedback for.!!

    When the propsect of documents landing on CMR/1SL/2SL desks regarding the failure of your divisional system I guarantee you will get a reaction from the chain of command in your unit!!
  17. I have to agree with Trehorn here. There is only SO long that you can stand on a gangway holding a rifle looking ruffty-tuffty. I know AWFP guys get to play with guns and boats, but at the end of the day surely it must get a tad boring?
  18. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    You picks your branches, you takes your chances... 8O
  19. Tall Bloke..assuming you are who I think you may be, you were never suited to AWFP anyway...looking tufty rufty is always difficult when you have a pronounced mince...try the comms!!

    If you arent who I think you sincere apologies!!!

    Feel free to PM me!!!
  20. I always thought that the divisional system was there to stop the proverbial reaching those at the top who can actually do something about it ;P

    Why do you think CMR reads this - because he finds out about all the f*ck ups that the people in the middle are scared to tell him.

    Don't get me wrong. there are people in the middle that do go out of their way to get things done and answer your questions honestly but its quite obvious that if you want to report something up the chain and one of the people in the chain may be tarnished by what you have to say then its going to stop there. When the man at the top find out that things may not be functioning as advertised then its in his best interest to sort it out, and if a few noses get pushed ut of joint in the process then so be it. As we keep saying, its his train set.

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