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The Yanks Do It Again


War Hero
Our American Cousins have again blocked evidence from the coroner.....

If the information is so'secret' then why not just let the coroner see it with out the public seeing it ???

Quote from the BBC Story
'A British board of inquiry report into the tragedy caused controversy when it differed in the findings of the American report.

The UK inquiry by 3 Commando Brigade found that technical failure was to blame. But British defence chiefs endorsed a US investigation which focused on pilot "disorientation

So what are they covering up this time or am I a conspiracy theorist?


War Hero
ukdaytona, they will ALWAYS get away with it. Always have covered up evidence and buried it in shite!!!!! I agree with you mate. Matty Hulls death by blue-on-blue contact proved it? How could they not when the video was shown on Sky News?? Anyway I am getting a little sick of Yank issues on this site??


War Hero
Right lets get a few facts straight here please. The Yanks protect there armed forces .Not like ours where we get hung out to dry.Any court cases involving Brit forces in UK is all over the press.

The blue on blue has been done to death.Dont talk about a topic you have no clue about. Once again it was all over the press yet a few major facts were missing. Ref the 8 lads killed on the sea night well the yanks lost 4 guys as well. The 8 Brits killed came to my units BBQ 3 nights before the crash whilst we were sat in kuwait. Its one of those things that happen,its part and parcel of being IN the forces.

Please lets not all get on this ''Yank bashing'' trip. We have had a few trouble makers from the USA on this site of late. However most yanks are good as gold. They have saved many many UK lives lets not forget that.
Dont judge them until you have worked with them .

Firstly I am sure every one respects your point of view, especially considering your own experience. I am sure most of the yank bashing is not aimed at them all, I would concur most of them are decent people just like us, some are mouthy, and some are downright obnoxious, but in general they are OK and I have had many good times with them both in uniform and out.

These incidents though do evoke anger from many because of the way they behave to us their closest allies, they prosecute those who abuse Iraqis yet cover up blue on blue incidents.

Having had a quick look at this one it is even worse in some respects as they seem to be pushing all the blame on a dead pilot to avoid any suggestion the 'system' was at fault, and one might suggest the coroner is actually trying to help the US aircrews families get closure and justice too, so not a pure yank bashing exercise.


War Hero
Good post maxi .Like I have said the USA looks after its own .I wish I could say the same for ours.
Deeps said:
Good post maxi .Like I have said the USA looks after its own .I wish I could say the same for ours.

Sometimes it is not easy when you are up against the yanks, and is blaming the pilot instead of admitting a system foul up really defending your own, a lot of the time they are defending GWB and his mate first, if some of their servicement benefit that is a bonus.
I am open to correction but believe there are basic differences; in the U.S. the forces do their own post mortems, in the UK the death of any citizen no matter where is open to a Coroners Court, hence the lengthy process of determining the death of Princess Diana amongst others.
The failure of U.S. agencies to forward important information to the UK may be a victim of different processes; the U.S. historically being almost unable to understand the cutlture of other nations.
Nothwithstanding that it is a shabby way to treat a so called Ally, or so this entire 'dodgy' war has seemed to many brits from the word go.


War Hero

Im not 'Yank bashing' so ok, maybe wrong title. What I am asking is, why when you have a number of families that have lost loved ones in enemy action can you have 2 conclusions and what appears to be the various Gov. dept blocking inquests yet again

The US DoD & UK MoD appear to claim 'human error' while the RM carried out an enquiry that found probably technical error

From these 2 conclusions, the families have no 'closure' and surely the information requested by the coroner would of helped to offer the families some much needed answers.


The higher leadership in the U.S. military has become very reluctant to release information early in an investigation due to the prominent screw-ups of the past, like the Tillman incident, a blue-on-blue with the Canadians in Afghanistan and the recent incident with the UK in Iraq.

Everyone's very concerned about making sure the facts are straight before releasing information. Consequently, they end up looking like they're stonewalling or covering things up. It's a lose-lose these days with the 24/7, minute-by-minute news cycle.


In my opinion there are a lot of strands here. The first major one is Deeps point - That these things simply happen. In the 'fog of war' people make mistakes. I have been part of numerous exercises with the yanks specificly designed to work out how to stop blue-on-blue, they honestly pump millions into this problem and it is very difficult to find a solution.

The second problem is the new phenomenon of media 'clarity'. Everyone seems to have a lust for all the information, as soon as it is available. All the media stations have instant experts and all the opinions viewed just feed the frenzy leading to more confusion. No-one is safe and everyone has a finger pointing at them.

Lastly is the way we treat our service personnel. Why shouldn't the yanks point to a dead pilot? I'm sorry, but that guy in the A10 probably wakes every day with this on his mind, having the worlds media on him as well just makes it worse. We allow our service men & women to face the brutal brunt of enquiries and media speculation (see mark of cain on tv lately?) and leave them out to dry, the Yanks gather there wagons and protect their own.

I feel very sorry for the lads and lasses who die for their country, but as I said at the start, it's conflict, and people die. That's why we're called the 'Armed' forces.


War Hero
GMAN, take your point BUT how would you feel if a member of your family were to be blamed for something that wasnt their fault ?

Would you not fight for all the information to be made available or would you just accept that they take the blame for something they havent done?? Should the families of the RAF Chinook crew that crashed in Scotland have just roled over??

2 investigations and 2 different answers, if both had agreed then fine but when you have 2 different answers surely it is better that all information is released to the authroities so that a final decision can be made?


Your two examples are not the same, the Chinook crashed during peacetime, these guys died at war/conflict.
I do take your point though and it is difficult to say what is right. I personally believe that we are so desperate to have someone to blame that it clouds sound judgement.
Maybe a dead pilot should not be blamed as you rightly point out, but does that mean the living pilot gets it? In my honest opinion the family should accept that the loss of their son/brother was a tragic and avoidable accident and more should be done to improve friendly identification during conflict.
It's a very difficult emotionally charged situation, and I sympathise with both sides.


If your loved one was killed under circumstances like these don't you think the honourable thing for our 'allies' to do would be to come clean, I for one do not think it is to much to expect. This clamming up by the US military creates bad feeling and suspicion.
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