The War You Don't See

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by finknottle, Dec 14, 2010.

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  1. Love him or hate him it should be worth watching.

    ITV1 Tonight 2235.

    That’s just one of a raft of startling admissions from a number of eminent war correspondents as John Pilger’s quietly sensational and savage documentary exposes how governments routinely manipulate the media to promote their wars.

  2. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    finknottle wrote
    What is?

    And, looking at the link, and being aware of John Pilger's CV it may appear that:

    journalists routinely manipulate their old employers to promote their documentaries.
  3. That's why I provided the link and it may appear that journalists routinely manipulate their old employers to promote their documentaries, I for one could not say.

    I would think that the programme needs to be viewed before an educated opinion can be given as to whether it is a good piece of journalism or not.
  4. I was being lectured on an IT subject by an ex sideways officer who recounted an incident whilst at Northwood. SkyNews were reporting the effects of an Allied air raid in Iraq. The officers were asked in turn "is that your raid"? No came the replies.

    It transpires that the journos were short of a story as no raid had come in that day so they lit some car tyres and moved to a view from where they could film and report on the damage caused by the non existant "air raid" for their editors.
  5. Aye, it would be ingenuous to think that skulduggery does not take place on both sides..
  6. All this bleeding heart journalist concern over truth and openness for the general public is really good; except for at least one minor detail. The unfortunates in less free societies don't share reciprocal benefits and their Government wouldn't be bothered if they did.

    This does no more than narrow the odds in favour of the true nasty bastards.

    Sorry if this implies contempt for the general British general public.
  7. Pilger is an arrogant bullying cnut of the first order.
    I saw him on a book review type show here in NZ demand to know in his usual hectoring manner why the female interviewer hadn't read his latest book, which he was on the show to promote.
    Clearly the interviewer was asking him to give a brief synopsis of the book for the viewers.
    The interviewer maintained her composure and tried to get him to explain his tome for his audience, but Pilger who'd obviously had a few in the Green Room, insisted that she should read it and then he'd discuss his work with her.
    A wasted opportunity for him to gain a few sales and perhaps interest some punters in his cause.
    Oh and he's Australian. So doubley cursed IMO. :twisted:
  8. Typical pilger. typical anti-west, anti-us rubbish. he is just as biased as the politicians and leaders he blames for lying!
  9. I like NZ's general overview of Pilger. Sounds rather on the ball really.
  10. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    I didn't get to see it but looking at the Mirror's gushing preview of their former employee's documentary, Pilger is outraged that the surprise surprise, the media is 'exploited' in order to manage the battlespace. Even before commnications allowed real time reporting it was so.

    Some journalists are more interested in being the biggest dog in the street and stoking their egos by being seen to grip some (usually) general or other senior officer, get him to bluster and fart and feck the consequences for the conduct of operations.

    The media understanding of warfare during TELIC 1 was near non existant. When the advance halted to allow the supply train to catch up (such is the nature of blitzkrieg) the press reported to the effect that the allies were 'bogged down'. Not something that the any of von Clausewitz's trinity wish to hear even if it was true.
  11. Pilger has always been on the side of the anti's. I remember him well during the 60's. Always gobbing off on the BBC about the wicked yanks and allies during the Viet Nam war. The man is a self opinionated Twunt!
    Oh yes, I watched some of last nights program. It didn't take long to see where it was going. I was looking for some shock revelation, not what any thinking person already knows........
  12. I watched it all and to me it was nothing more than blatent attempt to belittle the UK/US Forces and their Governments. Whilst I am sure there have been cover ups over what goes on in war, he only seemed to cover it from one perspective - HIS!

    He annoyed me a great deal when he said it was BBC or ITV's fault for running the stories about WMD and the like. Excuse me, they were only reporting what our great warmonger Blair was telling them via his press office. As Roof Rat stated, he is a self-opinionated Twunt!

    He continually banged on about about how harshly our forces have treated Iraqi's, Afghan's during the occupation of their countries. I am not defending what those guys did in any shape or form, in fact, those who committed war crimes should be brought to task, but the Iraqi's and Afghan's have also done much the same, especially the Iraqi's in the Gulf War One.

    I noticed that there was no mention of the Falklands at all, I wonder why?
  13. Manipulating the media to promote wars.

    I'm pretty sure this has always been called propaganda. Just a look through any WW1 or WW2 newspaper (of any sides).

    Never watched it as I thought it was going to be predictable, from what posters have said I was right.
  14. This is also being discussed over on ArRSE if anyone's interested
  15. The first casualty in war is always the truth. I expect the second casualty is "innocence"
  16. There's some pretty ridiculous Septic news programmes. A few fellows seem to get rather wet over types of aircraft; a personal favourite being "I just love the F-18!". His description of 'the Battle of the Somme' as simply a propaganda film is wide of the mark. When it was released, although some scenes were fabricated, others, such as a soldier carrying a fallen comrade were entirely truthful and very hard-hitting at the time which was the reason so many flocked to see the film. Another famous sequence in the film is the detonation of a huge mine which was blown ten minutes before zero hour to suit the cameraman and thus, alert the Germans.

    At the end of the day, everybody knows war is horrific and the vast majority of the public should not be subjected to warfare at its rawest, most visceral. During the Falklands, i read, the BBC was the Argies' greatest form of intelligence, giving good information on the size of the task force etc!

    The media has a very fine line to tread during war. Pilger's dream of total freedom of information is simply fantasy.

    And he looks like Bob Holness and Liberace's bastrad love child.
  17. And the third is Journalistic Integrity, if such a thing exists and I didnt dream it up :?
  18. Having watched the whole programme I found that the main theme that JP was pushing was the fact that embedded or inner circle media have to toe the party lone otherwise they will be frozen out, so what do they do, in order to get the story they toe the line which does not say much for their integrity. I also have no doubt that if the media had done their job properly Blair would never have got away with it.
  19. What Finks said in bold.

    We have the same issue down here. The local media are not much more than just an extension of the States (the Government here) PR department. Very little investigative journalism (unless you count stories into how great Jersey was during WWII) occurs here. Now the interweb is here "they" are sh1tting themselves as people are finding out what they have been up to all these years with our money ...

    Apols for ranting O/T
  20. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Embeds get to report what the military allow them to or they get binned. Well d'uh!

    I'm reporting live from position blah were we are patrolling in Troop strength, sneaking up on an enemy position 10 klicks (loving the jargon) to our north. Each man has 100 rounds, we're having to share NVG and there have been reports that a lot of grenades from a recent delivery are failing to detonate. We only have food and water for 24 hours and Corporal Clumsy has lost his map which limits our ability to operate sections independently.

    Having not seen the programme (I'd only rant at the TV) and leaving the governments out of it, I don't know exactly what Pilger was getting at or how he presented the view of the military. If he did it may well have been a first.

    Somethings are best not reported, other times it is important to tell the truth however bad and before the enemy accuse (rightly for once) of a cover up. Casual observers and their embedded or freelance reporters are not entitled to know everything or in some cases, anything.

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