The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before posting.

Discussion in 'Films, Music, TV & All Things Artsy' started by chieftiff, Oct 29, 2007.

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  1. Gifted and challenging the boundaries.

  2. Pretentious, unremarkable and talentless.

    0 vote(s)
  3. I'm sitting on the fence

    0 vote(s)
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  1. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Having read through the debate thread with so many good suggestions, a lot of which would make good threads by the way! : Link to debate suggestions I have decided to go for an arty subject and one which I know most people have an opinion on.

    This thread is the "before poll" the idea is you vote in favour of your already held opinions, after 5 days I will close the poll and open a new thread inviting people to argue their point. In your argument you will get one shot (plus one edit to correct mongishness) There will then be an "after poll"

    So the subject of the debate is:

    Conceptual artists: pretentious, unremarkable, talentless and boring or gifted and challenging the boundaries of what art is?

    Vote accordingly and feel free to comment but don't put all your cards on the table yet. For those not quite sure what conceptual art is, so many labels so many meanings! look here: Wikki entry for conceptual art
  2. i was hoping for a thrid option -

    I'm too stupid to understand the thread

    any chance

    sorry but i do like a good rolf harris
  3. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    Shags, I like Rolf too. The question though, do you think a soiled bed displayed by some bird and worth £150K, or a big teddy bear wandering around a building are crap........................ or not?
  4. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Unfortunately, critics who speak out against conceptual art (would you want to argue with Tracey Emin?!) will not change a thing. There will always be pretentious people with too much money to spend, who will buy such "art", reaed pretentious "poetry" and go to "performance art". All these activities then give them the chance to discuss why they like such works, which in turn leads them to their favourite subject - themselves. Leave such pretentious people to themselves, and the world may soon return to normality. There is more than enough quality art around for the rest of us to enjoy.

    When you read that an 'artist' had won an award for setting up a room where the lights went on and off, it's no wonder that the general public (art lovers or otherwise) get furious. I cannot believe that these people can get away with taking an object or creating a scene from everyday life, placing it in an art gallery and calling it art. We have had to wait far too long for someone from the art world to have the courage to speak out on this issue, but those that do are regarded as philistines and nonbelievers by so-called "experts". Art is surely about creativity, imagination and originality. Let's recognise those artists who display these qualities in their work and stop giving so much publicity to those who don't.

    Art from the preceding centuries has endured many changes to what is classed as 'art'. I cannot see conceptual 'artist' Tracey Emins 'art' being bid for in years to come for millions of pounds. They are certainly no Caravaggio or Michaelangelo. Just like the popular music scene of the last few years, it is shallow, over-hyped rubbish (often quite literally).

    An unmade bed with clothes strewn around it is NOT art and I challenge anybody to convince me otherwise. How many years studying took place to come up with that rubbish? And for what? If it is art, then my bedroom is a priceless piece and I should win the Turner prize. Wow, I've been a top artist all my life and didn't realise it! No studying either so that makes me a natural. To think that lottery money goes toward this 'art' beggars belief and to think that prizes are awarded really does make me laugh.

    "Skill without imagination is craftsmanship, and gives us many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill gives us modern art."
  5. Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    "a soiled bed displayed by some bird" is worth whatever you are prepared to pay for it, assuming that you wanted to pay anything at all for it. If you are outbid at an auction by someone who has the money and the desire to own the object, then fair play to them. Where the matter becomes contentious is when public money is being used to populate civic art gallerys and museums with new material, when works by the likes of Turner and Constable are locked away in stores because there is no space to display them. This goes on seemingly without any requirement to justify what is spent and on what it is spent; and therein lies the conflict. Discuss!
  6. Q. How many conceptual artists does it take to change a light bulb?

    A. A banana

  7. Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    well in that case yes its bolloxs - and as for that twat picasso he couldnt even get the face right let alone make a start on landscapes.
  8. Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    Well dare I say it ... I quite like the conceptual art I've seen. I'm sure its not for the reasons that the artists themselves had in creating them (I'm not clever enough to understand all the words or more likely too lazy to try, sorry Harry) but I do like things that give one a little unexpected frisson, something that even if its only for a moment makes the mundane more interesting or casts a new light on familiar objects. Tracy Emin makes me laugh too and is on my list of people I'd like to get drunk with. And here's a lovely piece of work ... but like I said I'm sure I like it for all the wrong reasons ...


    p.s. I'm sure it is argued that all art is conceptual - surely the minute we stopped scrawling on cave walls with whatever came to mind that's what it became (added later)
  9. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    Just thought I would bump this 168 views and only 14 votes, it's like a general election turnout!!
  10. The trouble is, I'm at my most "gifted" and "challenging" when I'm taking the p**s! My p**s-takes don't attract shed loads of money, though.
  11. As an admirer of the work of Joseph Beuys (his work was exhibited at the Tate Modern last year and I went along especially to see this exhibition) I am obviously sympathetic to some aspects of it, though I do not admire Tracey Emin's work (unlike my sister), but one's concept of what constitutes Art not only changes over time (I used to loathe conceptual art) but also with one's philosophical outlook and how one views the space which we inhabit. For example do you see humans as occupying a special place as a life form or simply one species amongst many?

    Come on Beuys, answer that one? ;)
  12. Oops, I meant to say come on boys, and answer that? :biggrin:

    Are you taking bids on your p*ss takes? How could we offer lucre when we didn't know your wanted to harvest our wallets? Do you take American Express?
  13. Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    Before we get too bogged down in conceptual art and what is on display at The Tate Modern, don't you think they should get that b****y great crack in the floor sorted out ? makes you wonder how safe the rest of the building is !
  14. I resemble the man that fell into that crack. I still haven't worked out how to get out!
  15. Re: The RR Art debate poll, please read post 1 before postin

    terrible isn't it?
  16. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Just remember - there is no crack... :wink:
  17. I think the question in the poll is wrong.

    Gifted - certainly
    Talentless - definately not
    Pretentious - probably (but I don't know any)
    challenging the boundaries - maybe
    unremarkable - sometimes remarkable

    In view of that, I can't respond to the poll

    Some of it's shit, some of it is brilliant
  18. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    The question can't be wrong! It is subjective to enable the answer to be debatable, that's the point. "There's no such thing as a bad question...............etc etc

    Your answer would suggest that you disagree with the generalised remark, I do however get the point, have added a "sitting on the fence" option :dwarf:
  19. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    CT: There is no fence, either... :wink:
  20. chieftiff

    chieftiff War Hero Moderator

    There is now, hopefully!
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