The Naval Service

#1
I've become embroiled in one of those silly bloody arguments, as one does (or, as I do, anyway), that centres on an entry in that great fount of all factual truth, Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Service

Wikipedia said:
The Naval Service is the naval branch of the British Armed Forces, which includes civilian agencies under the control of the Navy Board.
My initial considered opinion was “bolloxâ€. After 10+ years of Noo Labia, though, I’m no longer sure of anything.

The salient point of the argument is, are the Marines an Arm of the RN or part of Wiki’s “Naval Service� I must confess to having been confused towards the end of the last Century when the RM appeared on the Army ORBAT and demanded on QMG for non training material.
 
#3
More from Wikipedia (British Armed Forces):

Wikipedia said:
Naval Service

The Naval Service consists of the Royal Navy (including the Submarine Service and Fleet Air Arm) and the Royal Marines.[54][55] As of 21 May 2008, a fleet of 88 vessels (including an aircraft carrier in reserve) is maintained by the Royal Navy, assisted by 17 vessels of the civilian Royal Fleet Auxiliary.[56][57][58]

Royal Marines

The infantry component of the Naval Service is the Corps of Royal Marines, which had a reported strength of approximately 7,400 in 2006.[3] Consisting of a single manoeuvre brigade (3 Commando) and various independent units, the Royal Marines specialise in amphibious, arctic, and mountain warfare.[62] Contained within 3 Commando Brigade are three attached army units; 1st Battalion, The Rifles,an infantry battalion based at Beachley Barracks,Chepstow (from April 2008), 29 Commando Regiment Royal Artillery, an artillery regiment based in Plymouth, and 24 Commando Regiment Royal Engineers.[63] The Commando Logistic Regiment consists of personnel from the Army, Royal Marines, and Royal Navy.[64]
This is my understanding too. Obviously, RFA personnel and all the civil servants and civilian contractors working in full-time support capacities are also included in the Naval Service but not neccesarily in the Royal Navy.
 
#4
Passed-over_Loggie said:
The salient point of the argument is, are the Marines an Arm of the RN or part of Wiki’s “Naval Service� I must confess to having been confused towards the end of the last Century when the RM appeared on the Army ORBAT and demanded on QMG for non training material.
Surely the reference to QRs should be superceded by a reference to the Armed Forces Act?

The unified ''Navy Command'' that encpompasses RN, RM and RFA would suggest Naval Service, although I'm unconvinced of the argument that civilian ''agencies'' are part of it.

I'm not convinced that the civilian bodies within NC are individually legally constituted as agencies.

All that said, I don't think RM is an Arm of the RN. Do RM ID cards still carry the ''Naval Service'' label?
 
#5
Karma said:
Where is the discussion, there doesn't appear to have been any activity on that page recently.
You are, of course, right. That reference, though, was the source of the argument but not the actual argument.

Thanks to you and Naval_Gazerfor your responses. In 36 years, I’d never encountered the Naval Service title before, apart from in Patrick O’Brien novels. BR2 didn’t help much nor http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Corps Line Diagram.pdf
 
#6
The RM is part of the navy. They sign exactly the same contract as anyone joining the RN. A Royal Marine's ID card says Royal navy.
 

mophead

Lantern Swinger
#7
Civil Servants may work for the Navy and be responsible to a uniformed Officer,but remain Civil Servants,not members of the Royal Navy.
 
#8
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Karma said:
Where is the discussion, there doesn't appear to have been any activity on that page recently.
You are, of course, right. That reference, though, was the source of the argument but not the actual argument.

Thanks to you and Naval_Gazer for your responses. In 36 years, I’d never encountered the Naval Service title before, apart from in Patrick O’Brien novels. BR2 didn’t help much nor http://www.royalmarinesregimental.co.uk/Corps Line Diagram.pdf
Err...

BR2
CHAPTER 1
COMPOSITION OF THE NAVAL SERVICE AND JURISDICTION OF QRRN

SECTION I - COMPOSITION OF THE NAVAL SERVICE

0101. Composition of the Naval Service

1. The Naval Service comprises the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, QARNNS, Reserve Forces and Naval Careers Service. The Naval Service is supported by a range of organisations (including external agencies and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary) which are largely
civilian manned. The latter organisations do not form part of the Naval Service, but where they contain personnel of the Royal Navy those personnel individually form part of the Naval Service. They are all governed by the Admiralty Board of the Defence Council.
Old versions of BR2 include in their definition of Naval Service various civilian organisations such as the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors, Royal Fleet Auxiliary, etc.
 
#9
Bugger! You’re right. I don’t think I’ve ever looked at Ch 1, Sect 1 before. Thanks.

Glancing, through that chapter, though, I do note a significant number of factual errors. For example, it refers to an organisation (NBSA) that ceased to exist over 8 years ago. My page is dated 2008.
 

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