The MoD shows an unsure grasp of honour

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by rum_rat, Aug 13, 2007.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. The MoD shows an unsure grasp of honour

    The bureaucrats who run the Ministry of Defence have classified the British military mission to Afghanistan a peacekeeping operation, and are therefore refusing to award combat medals to the Service personnel who are participating in the fiercest fighting since the Second World War.

  2. RR your link did not want to work so here it is


  3. Absolute f@%*ing b*&%ocks, tell that to the people getting shot at and the families that worry about them.
  4. That is rather disgraceful like. I understand that it is peace-keeping but so what? They are, after all, the people who make the rules!!
  5. You a Geordie, Badger?
  6. It's an Op-Ed piece so it doesn't actually say which medals the system isn't awarding. OTOH there has been one VC awarded, to a Para Corporal, so it looks like they are issuing some.......
  7. not sure where the telegraph got info from. Operational honours in July had the following for Afghanistan:- (info from MOD website)

    Conspicuous Gallantry Cross (CGC)

    Corporal John Thomas THOMPSON Royal Marines

    Military Cross (MC)

    Marine Matthew BISPHAM Royal Marines
    Marine Daniel CLARICOATES Royal Marines
    Corporal Michael COWE Royal Marines
    Marine Ian Paul DANBY Royal Marines
    Marine Daniel FISHER Royal Marines
    Corporal Alan HEWITT Royal Marines
    Sergeant Jason LAYTON Royal Marines
    Corporal Simon WILLEY Royal Marines
    Lance Bombardier Richard David JENNINGS Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Captain David Charles RIGG Corps of Royal Engineers

    George Medal (GM)

    Fusilier Andrew Lee BARLOW The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

    Queen's Gallantry Medal (QGM)

    Captain Graeme MCINTOSH Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Captain Timothy Peter Walker RUSHMERE Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Captain Vincent Michael STRAFFORD The Royal Logistic Corps

    Mention in Despatches (MiD)

    Captain Alistair Scott CARNS Royal Marines
    Marine Thomas CURRY Royal Marines (killed in action)
    Captain Duncan Graham FORBES Royal Marines
    Major Philip GADIE Royal Marines
    Marine Jonathan Paul HART Royal Marines
    Marine Alexander HOOLE Royal Marines
    Warrant Officer Class 2 Robert Daniel JONES Royal Marines
    Corporal Adam LISON Royal Marines
    Marine Paul MAYFIELD Royal Marines
    Captain Jason Robert MILNE Royal Marines
    Corporal Ashley OATES Royal Marines
    Second Lieutenant Richard SHARP Royal Marines
    Warrant Officer Class 2 Steven SHEPHERD MBE Royal Marines
    Marine Matthew SMITH Royal Marines
    Sapper Lee Stephen HORAN Corps of Royal Engineers
    Corporal Steven MARNER Corps of Royal Engineers
    Warrant Officer Class 2 Michael SMITH Royal Regiment of Artillery (killed in action)
    Major Jonathan SWIFT The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers
    Sergeant Michael WILKINSON The Light Dragoons
    Flight Lieutenant Lewis Alexander CUNNINGHAM Royal Air Force

    Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service (QCVS)

    Major Matthew CHURCHWARD Royal Marines
    Lieutenant Colonel Duncan Andrew DEWAR Royal Marines
    Lieutenant Colonel Charles Richard STICKLAND Royal Marines
    Major General Christopher Charles BROWN CBE Late Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Brigadier Richard Roderick DAVIS CBE Late Corps of Royal Engineers
    Warrant Officer Class 2 Richard Geoffrey GROVES Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Major Jeremy Derek HOLMAN Corps of Royal Engineers
    Corporal Hamze MILAD Adjutant General's Corps (Staff and Personnel Support Branch)
    Major Austen Lee PEARCE Intelligence Corps
    Brigadier Robert William Hunt PURDY OBE Late Royal Regiment of Artillery
    Major Benedict John WARRACK The Light Dragoons
    Wing Commander Stephen Jeffrey SHELL Royal Air Force

    So plenty of bravery being honoured
  8. Err what exactly is a "combat medal" - if you go then you get the OSM. Same difference really. Just another paper that knows nothing about defence.
  9. Yeah - the enemy is the enemy, whether it's peacekeeping or combat. And what are the guys at Musa Qala doing? Enforced live peacekeeping???
  10. Here is the actual news article, it's an issue around campaigning for an additional OSM, over and above the one that's already issued.
  11. Maybe a Helmland Star for particular operations?
  12. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    My thoughts exactly. 'Combat medal?' Sounds a bit American, like 'rookie' 'firefight' and 'Brigadier General'

    Now perhaps they mean campaign medal as Karma suggests. However, for the Telegraph's information campaign medals aren't graded on the amount of incoming or deprivation. A rosette or clasp for being nearer the pointy end doesn't mean you you lived in a hole in the ground. I got the same Telic Gong as those ashore doing the fighting and taking casualties. Same for the Atlantic Star (not me!). Five years on convoys-not a scratch or sunk six times including twice in 24 hours-same gong. GSM for NI same one for blokes on patrol in Bandit Country as those standing by a conversion at H&W. Nothing new.

    Along with certain posters on this forum.
  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    This is a very similar discussion to previous with regard the award of multiple campaign medals for the same conflict.

    Up until 1982 most individuals involved in campaigns were awarded the GSM with Clasp, such as N. Ireland, Malaya, Cyprus, Gulf etc. The South Atlantic Medal was then issued for the Falklands as this was deemed worthy of an individual medal as were the two subsequent Gulf Wars and the
    Operational Service Medal- Afghanistan.

    As has already been pointed out, those deserving of being singled out for individual awards are duly rewarded in most cases. However, I'm still amazed those Royal Marines in Afghanistan who rescued their fallen comrade by flying on the outside of Apache helicopters do not seem to have even been awarded a mention in despaches. (Outrageous)

    Some people seem to think that if a particular conflict is intense, then you should get more medals, presumably as a mark of severity. Generally those involved in combat were awarded a rosette on the ribbon. Multiple medals for one area of action may be the way elsewhere, but it has seldom been the case in UK, rightly or wrongly.
  14. To my mind, the OSM already fills the bill and anyone wearing it legitimately gets my unreserved respect. A separate clasp for Helmand wouldn't be such a bad idea if it wasn't so divisive - it's already causing bickering between the 'front line' infantry and the support elements, many of whom are subject to the hazards of suicide bombs and rocket/mortar/sniper attack in the 'front line', back at base and while transiting in between. Do we then have a separate clasp for Basra even though we have people in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq subject to the same dangers and privations? Then there is the problem of qualifying times and areas. Does 30 days in the province with no 'contacts' count for more than one day when you were under attack or your a/c was fired on or even shot down?

    I was all for the Arctic service medal, especially for the MN veterans who had to sit there and take it without being able to fight back, but this constant lust for ever more campaign medals is unedifying. The guys in the sandpits are all heroes in my book but it's the awards for conspicuous (and inconspicuous) gallantry that should really count. The last thing I want to see is the development of a 'cornflakes medal' culture in our services like that of some other countries. It would cheapen the contributions of all our service personnel, past and present.
  15. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    I agree entirely, well put.

    Those that wish to buy additional "cornflakes medals" will doubtless continue to do so, but again it is a good visual warning for those that know to avoid them.
  16. Repeat:
  17. The Telegraph article appears to be yet another mis-represented issue, on what must be a quiet news day. I thought this was meant to be a serious newspaper :thumright:
  18. I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong, but they're both (Iraq and Afghanistan) Operational Service Medals.
  19. Since its introduction, three OSMs have been issued: for service in Sierra Leone, Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Although in each case the OSM is the same, different ribbons will denote the area of operations.

    Op telic is a different medal. But all four medals are of equal status campaign medals.
  20. Good point, well made.

Share This Page