The MoD shows an unsure grasp of honour

rum_rat

Lantern Swinger
#1
The MoD shows an unsure grasp of honour

The bureaucrats who run the Ministry of Defence have classified the British military mission to Afghanistan a peacekeeping operation, and are therefore refusing to award combat medals to the Service personnel who are participating in the fiercest fighting since the Second World War.

Award
 
#2
rum_rat said:
The MoD shows an unsure grasp of honour

The bureaucrats who run the Ministry of Defence have classified the British military mission to Afghanistan a peacekeeping operation, and are therefore refusing to award combat medals to the Service personnel who are participating in the fiercest fighting since the Second World War.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/08/14/]dl1401.xml
RR your link did not want to work so here it is

Award

Nutty
 
#6
It's an Op-Ed piece so it doesn't actually say which medals the system isn't awarding. OTOH there has been one VC awarded, to a Para Corporal, so it looks like they are issuing some.......
 
#7
not sure where the telegraph got info from. Operational honours in July had the following for Afghanistan:- (info from MOD website)

Conspicuous Gallantry Cross (CGC)

Corporal John Thomas THOMPSON Royal Marines

Military Cross (MC)

Marine Matthew BISPHAM Royal Marines
Marine Daniel CLARICOATES Royal Marines
Corporal Michael COWE Royal Marines
Marine Ian Paul DANBY Royal Marines
Marine Daniel FISHER Royal Marines
Corporal Alan HEWITT Royal Marines
Sergeant Jason LAYTON Royal Marines
Corporal Simon WILLEY Royal Marines
Lance Bombardier Richard David JENNINGS Royal Regiment of Artillery
Captain David Charles RIGG Corps of Royal Engineers

George Medal (GM)

Fusilier Andrew Lee BARLOW The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

Queen's Gallantry Medal (QGM)

Captain Graeme MCINTOSH Royal Regiment of Artillery
Captain Timothy Peter Walker RUSHMERE Royal Regiment of Artillery
Captain Vincent Michael STRAFFORD The Royal Logistic Corps

Mention in Despatches (MiD)

Captain Alistair Scott CARNS Royal Marines
Marine Thomas CURRY Royal Marines (killed in action)
Captain Duncan Graham FORBES Royal Marines
Major Philip GADIE Royal Marines
Marine Jonathan Paul HART Royal Marines
Marine Alexander HOOLE Royal Marines
Warrant Officer Class 2 Robert Daniel JONES Royal Marines
Corporal Adam LISON Royal Marines
Marine Paul MAYFIELD Royal Marines
Captain Jason Robert MILNE Royal Marines
Corporal Ashley OATES Royal Marines
Second Lieutenant Richard SHARP Royal Marines
Warrant Officer Class 2 Steven SHEPHERD MBE Royal Marines
Marine Matthew SMITH Royal Marines
Sapper Lee Stephen HORAN Corps of Royal Engineers
Corporal Steven MARNER Corps of Royal Engineers
Warrant Officer Class 2 Michael SMITH Royal Regiment of Artillery (killed in action)
Major Jonathan SWIFT The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers
Sergeant Michael WILKINSON The Light Dragoons
Flight Lieutenant Lewis Alexander CUNNINGHAM Royal Air Force

Queen's Commendation for Valuable Service (QCVS)

Major Matthew CHURCHWARD Royal Marines
Lieutenant Colonel Duncan Andrew DEWAR Royal Marines
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Richard STICKLAND Royal Marines
Major General Christopher Charles BROWN CBE Late Royal Regiment of Artillery
Brigadier Richard Roderick DAVIS CBE Late Corps of Royal Engineers
Warrant Officer Class 2 Richard Geoffrey GROVES Royal Regiment of Artillery
Major Jeremy Derek HOLMAN Corps of Royal Engineers
Corporal Hamze MILAD Adjutant General's Corps (Staff and Personnel Support Branch)
Major Austen Lee PEARCE Intelligence Corps
Brigadier Robert William Hunt PURDY OBE Late Royal Regiment of Artillery
Major Benedict John WARRACK The Light Dragoons
Wing Commander Stephen Jeffrey SHELL Royal Air Force

So plenty of bravery being honoured
 

TF110

Lantern Swinger
#8
Err what exactly is a "combat medal" - if you go then you get the OSM. Same difference really. Just another paper that knows nothing about defence.
 
#9
Yeah - the enemy is the enemy, whether it's peacekeeping or combat. And what are the guys at Musa Qala doing? Enforced live peacekeeping???
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
#12
Err what exactly is a "combat medal"
My thoughts exactly. 'Combat medal?' Sounds a bit American, like 'rookie' 'firefight' and 'Brigadier General'

Now perhaps they mean campaign medal as Karma suggests. However, for the Telegraph's information campaign medals aren't graded on the amount of incoming or deprivation. A rosette or clasp for being nearer the pointy end doesn't mean you you lived in a hole in the ground. I got the same Telic Gong as those ashore doing the fighting and taking casualties. Same for the Atlantic Star (not me!). Five years on convoys-not a scratch or sunk six times including twice in 24 hours-same gong. GSM for NI same one for blokes on patrol in Bandit Country as those standing by a conversion at H&W. Nothing new.

Just another paper that knows nothing about defence.
Along with certain posters on this forum.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#13
OSLO said:
Maybe a Helmland Star for particular operations?
This is a very similar discussion to previous with regard the award of multiple campaign medals for the same conflict.

Up until 1982 most individuals involved in campaigns were awarded the GSM with Clasp, such as N. Ireland, Malaya, Cyprus, Gulf etc. The South Atlantic Medal was then issued for the Falklands as this was deemed worthy of an individual medal as were the two subsequent Gulf Wars and the
Operational Service Medal- Afghanistan.

As has already been pointed out, those deserving of being singled out for individual awards are duly rewarded in most cases. However, I'm still amazed those Royal Marines in Afghanistan who rescued their fallen comrade by flying on the outside of Apache helicopters do not seem to have even been awarded a mention in despaches. (Outrageous)

Some people seem to think that if a particular conflict is intense, then you should get more medals, presumably as a mark of severity. Generally those involved in combat were awarded a rosette on the ribbon. Multiple medals for one area of action may be the way elsewhere, but it has seldom been the case in UK, rightly or wrongly.
 
#14
To my mind, the OSM already fills the bill and anyone wearing it legitimately gets my unreserved respect. A separate clasp for Helmand wouldn't be such a bad idea if it wasn't so divisive - it's already causing bickering between the 'front line' infantry and the support elements, many of whom are subject to the hazards of suicide bombs and rocket/mortar/sniper attack in the 'front line', back at base and while transiting in between. Do we then have a separate clasp for Basra even though we have people in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq subject to the same dangers and privations? Then there is the problem of qualifying times and areas. Does 30 days in the province with no 'contacts' count for more than one day when you were under attack or your a/c was fired on or even shot down?

I was all for the Arctic service medal, especially for the MN veterans who had to sit there and take it without being able to fight back, but this constant lust for ever more campaign medals is unedifying. The guys in the sandpits are all heroes in my book but it's the awards for conspicuous (and inconspicuous) gallantry that should really count. The last thing I want to see is the development of a 'cornflakes medal' culture in our services like that of some other countries. It would cheapen the contributions of all our service personnel, past and present.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#15
Naval_Gazer said:
To my mind, the OSM already fills the bill and anyone wearing it legitimately gets my unreserved respect.

The last thing I want to see is the development of a 'cornflakes medal' culture in our services like that of some other countries. It would cheapen the contributions of all our service personnel, past and present.
I agree entirely, well put.

Those that wish to buy additional "cornflakes medals" will doubtless continue to do so, but again it is a good visual warning for those that know to avoid them.
 
#18
number9 said:
It may be that the civilian journalist who wrote the Telegraph article believes OSM medals are just for peacekeeping duties and the Iraq Op Telic medal is more of a combat medal. In other words he is ignorant of the status of certain campaign medals because of their different names.
I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong, but they're both (Iraq and Afghanistan) Operational Service Medals.
 
#19
Karma said:
number9 said:
It may be that the civilian journalist who wrote the Telegraph article believes OSM medals are just for peacekeeping duties and the Iraq Op Telic medal is more of a combat medal. In other words he is ignorant of the status of certain campaign medals because of their different names.
I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong, but they're both (Iraq and Afghanistan) Operational Service Medals.
Since its introduction, three OSMs have been issued: for service in Sierra Leone, Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo. Although in each case the OSM is the same, different ribbons will denote the area of operations.

Op telic is a different medal. But all four medals are of equal status campaign medals.
 

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