The Middle East

Which is why we should keep well out of it.And as for here. Sod political correctness.Let everyone bother God in their own way, but not in the street,and not in peoples faces. We are (allegedly) a western democracy with equal rights for all. Any one who wants to live here, welcome but live by our standards.Anyone who wants to live in a medieval theocracy, well theres plenty of choice around the world.
I suppose every generation has theirs. WW1, WW2, Cold War. We'll get over it, but they are going to have to sort their many problems out, and we are going to have to stay as secular a society as we can, (IMHO)


Lantern Swinger
The only problem is that the French and us kinda caused it by drawing lines on a map and cutting territory up with no thought to outcomes. We also put a lot of the nasty dictators or their predecessors in place and helped them stay there for years. Same sort of thing as we did in Africa too.

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It is all well and good blaming the British and French for all the ills of the Middle East and Africa with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight but plenty of "nasty dictators" have come to the fore without our help. If recent history has taught us anything it should be that we should not try and apply our standards to countries where we don't understand the tribal and religious set up.
Without doubt Saddam was a cruel and unscrupulous dictator but he did understand the glue that held his society together and fought to maintain it. It was only that he wasn't satisfied with ruling Iraq and was trying to spread his influence that brought him to the world's attention. The West thought Iraq deserved better than Saddam only to find that what replaced him was inter-tribal Islamic sect civil war which is still claiming victims on a daily basis. Even Sadam at his very worst wasn't killing his fellow Iraqis on such a scale.
What we are seeing in Syria is the same as Iraq but we haven't got rid of the Dictator yet with the added danger of the surrounding states getting sucked in because they're all wanting a different outcome.
I read elsewhere that the UK and the US are keen to maintain their influence in the Middle East especially with the Gulf States but that doesn't mean we have to be their mercenaries.
There is nothing that will convince me that getting involved again in Middle East in-fighting is worthwhile at any level.
True,cjg. We have made mistakes in the past, but I think we have matured as a nation.We have to try to keep from making the mistakes that our children and grandchildren will have to deal with in the future. There is a generation of youth in the Middle East now that is struggling towards modernity,thats why we're seeing all the so called 'Arab Springs' but I think they are going to have to find their own way there.


Lantern Swinger
I totally agree that we stay the hell out and have said so in other threads. I was making the point that we caused it by interfering back in the day so we should give it up now. Many of these places thrive under a dictator who keeps all the other factions in check (not ignoring the terrible crimes committed but saying they deal with unrest). When the dictator goes or is toppled it all falls apart. Examples are Yugoslavia, Iraq and some Arab spring countries. Sad as it sounds its almost like some of the people in these countries need very very strong leadership to control them.

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Nothing we could have done in the past could have avoided strife in the Middle East, so how about we stop beating our breasts and feeling guilty about this shit.

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