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The law is an ass ( hole )

It is a very modern way of looking at things where child molestation and other perversions can be viewed as a disease or mental illness. That is quite simply nonsense. A child abuser and a rapist is a perv and a criminal, they know it is wrong like the rest of us do. Punishment should always fit the crime. If the UK prisons and doing time were a little more like they are in SE Asia then that might be more of a deterrant for crims. Over in Thailand, prison time is a REAL punishment. Sadly, that will never happen in the UK, our judiciary and "do gooders" have got their heads well and truly up their stern glands.
Punishment should fit the crime
Punishment should fit the crime
Punishment should fit the crime
Are we getting the point???
 
Also nice to see I still have my "oxygen thief" name tally.
Would the mod who issued it to me like to pm me and explain why?
Did I dare to have an opinion.....
 
Nozzer, you've said that you have a degree in criminology, may I ask what use you have put it to, ie jobwise. You are coming across in your postings as an academic rather than someone talking from hands on experience. I may be wrong and it might just be your style of writing.

Somewhere back at the start of the thread I mentioned Victims, rarely if at all do I see you make any comment on them. One of the problems I have found over the years, is the lack of understanding with ordinary people displayed by both the Judiciary and the Lawmakers, all to often the problems of the ordinary man are lost in the theory of things. Its very easy to spout theories from a distance, not so easy when you have to explain to a victim that the CPS won't be taking any action against a criminal because it wouldn't be in the criminals best interest. I wonder if this would happen less frequently if the decision makers in the CPS had to face victims and tell them, rather than sending a memo. out for Police to do it.

IMHO the Lawmakers, Judiciary, CPS and in some cases Senior Police Officers have lost the plot in as far as Punishment goes, there is to much consideration given to the criminal and not enough to the victim. To say that an immigrant who has murdered in this country cannot be sent back to his own country because he might be killed is, I would suggest, his problem, we are all responsible (unless deemed insane) for our own actions, if you know that you will be deported if you act against the laws of the UK and ignore that fact, its you that has made the decision to do it.
 
The issues of domestic violence,child sexual abuse, rape, murder and any other social no no in Aboriginal communities are once again on the agenda in Oz. Although this has been going on for many years it only becomes public when the authorities feel it is appropriate.It appears the courts are still unable or unwilling to decide or act upon serious matters because of the conlict between the law of the land and indigenous tribal law.Some examples of the type of offences were published in a national newspaper today.


" The picture has been the same down the years in much of the Western Desert, where child abuse is a familiar rite of passage and girls are routinely violated before their 13th birthday. It is the same across Aboriginal Australia to this day, from Cape York to the Pilbara: in one Kimberly town earlier this year a baby was burned and totured to death by its parents".


"The same week a young mother left her one year old baby in the care of a relative and came back to find the child had been raped. Or take another north Kimberly community and the tale of a fourteen year old boy, repeatedly raped last year by a mature man until he lost control of his bodily functions. the young victim was taken to Perth for surgery then returned to his community, where he drifted, his parents nowhere to be found, until nine months later he was savagely raped once more, this time by a 12-year old assailant".

The type of response by the judges is beyond belief,


" In one , the judge announced that rape was not a very serious crime in Aboriginal society and that, "chastity of women is not importantly regarded as in white communities". In another the judge declared that, " forcing women to have sexual intercourse is not socially acceptable ( in black culture) but it is not regarded with the seriousness that it is by the white community".



One of the most recent cases of tribal law as follows;


" An Aboriginal elder who claimed customary law gave him the right to bash and have **** intercourse with a 14-year old schoolgirl promised to him as a wife has lost a High Court bid to overturn his three year jail sentence. the 55 year old man was originally sentenced to just one month's jail by Northern Territory Chief Justice, ***** ****** last August after the judge accepted the defendant had believed tribal law meant he was entitled to teach the girl to obey him".

While all this continues our pollies swan around on overseas trips and send troops, equipment and money to keep the peace in other countries. A bloody disgrace and little wonder the "law" has been described as an ass.


:evil:
 
hobbit said:
The issues of domestic violence,child sexual abuse, rape, murder and any other social no no in Aboriginal communities are once again on the agenda in Oz. Although this has been going on for many years it only becomes public when the authorities feel it is appropriate.It appears the courts are still unable or unwilling to decide or act upon serious matters because of the conlict between the law of the land and indigenous tribal law.Some examples of the type of offences were published in a national newspaper today.


" The picture has been the same down the years in much of the Western Desert, where child abuse is a familiar rite of passage and girls are routinely violated before their 13th birthday. It is the same across Aboriginal Australia to this day, from Cape York to the Pilbara: in one Kimberly town earlier this year a baby was burned and totured to death by its parents".


"The same week a young mother left her one year old baby in the care of a relative and came back to find the child had been raped. Or take another north Kimberly community and the tale of a fourteen year old boy, repeatedly raped last year by a mature man until he lost control of his bodily functions. the young victim was taken to Perth for surgery then returned to his community, where he drifted, his parents nowhere to be found, until nine months later he was savagely raped once more, this time by a 12-year old assailant".

The type of response by the judges is beyond belief,


" In one , the judge announced that rape was not a very serious crime in Aboriginal society and that, "chastity of women is not importantly regarded as in white communities". In another the judge declared that, " forcing women to have sexual intercourse is not socially acceptable ( in black culture) but it is not regarded with the seriousness that it is by the white community".



One of the most recent cases of tribal law as follows;


" An Aboriginal elder who claimed customary law gave him the right to bash and have **** intercourse with a 14-year old schoolgirl promised to him as a wife has lost a High Court bid to overturn his three year jail sentence. the 55 year old man was originally sentenced to just one month's jail by Northern Territory Chief Justice, ***** ****** last August after the judge accepted the defendant had believed tribal law meant he was entitled to teach the girl to obey him".

While all this continues our pollies swan around on overseas trips and send troops, equipment and money to keep the peace in other countries. A bloody disgrace and little wonder the "law" has been described as an ass.


:evil:

Do you expect them to change after all they do live in a very strange world of their own. I sometimes think it is done on purpose.
 
Do you expect them to change after all they do live in a very strange world of their own. I sometimes think it is done on purpose.[/quote]

A good point as the whole business is popularly described as the , " Aboriginal Industry" and a lot of people would hate to see it changed, government and private industry as they would lose a lot of their income. I reckon the gaols, courts, police lawyers, social workers,hospitals etc etc would all be lost without these poor souls providing their bread and butter and wine. There are answers but someone strong enough to apply them has yet to emerge meanwhile the savagery and misery goes on, sad really,

:cry:

This is an excellent site on crime for those interested

Most current efforts to fight crime focus on sociological approaches: counseling and rehabilitation for offenders, tougher laws intended to discourage criminal acts, and better parenting and better education to prevent at-risk children from becoming delinquents and criminals.

These well-intentioned approaches have one thing in common: they frequently fail. Why? Because they fail to acknowledge that many criminals suffer from brain malfunctions which prevent them from benefiting from sociological or psychological interventions. Research shows that chronic offenders exhibit brain dysfunction leading to extreme "dyslogic." Many exhibit a lack of insight and foresight, a lack of empathy for animals and people, a low anger threshold, poor abstract thinking and social skills, a lack of fear and remorse, impulsivity, and an inability to realize the consequences of their actions or to learn from experience.

The more we learn about the brain dysfunction that underlies much delinquency and criminality, the more successful we will be in truly rehabilitating offenders, and preventing "at risk" children from turning to lives of crime. The purpose of Crime Times is to foster this effort by reporting state-of-the-art worldwide research on the causes and treatment of aberrant behavior. Topics addressed by Crime Times include:


ADHD, aggression, conduct disorder, antisocial behavior, delinquency, impulsivity, violence, and psychopathy.
The effects of imbalances of neurotransmitters and hormones, such as serotonin, thyroid, and testosterone.
Head injuries and structural abnormalities of the brain.
Genetics, premature birth, low birthweight, and perinatal trauma.
Food and chemical sensitivities.
Environmental contaminants such as lead, manganese, mercury, and pesticides.
Maternal smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.
Medical and nutritional interventions.
New books and information from leading experts.
There is much to report, for we are all living in "crime times" but we are also living in a time of hope, when medical and scientific discoveries offer us powerful new tools to effectively prevent or treat the true causes of aberrant, delinquent, and criminal behavior.
 
janner said:
Nozzer, you've said that you have a degree in criminology, may I ask what use you have put it to, ie jobwise. You are coming across in your postings as an academic rather than someone talking from hands on experience. I may be wrong and it might just be your style of writing.

Somewhere back at the start of the thread I mentioned Victims, rarely if at all do I see you make any comment on them. One of the problems I have found over the years, is the lack of understanding with ordinary people displayed by both the Judiciary and the Lawmakers, all to often the problems of the ordinary man are lost in the theory of things. Its very easy to spout theories from a distance, not so easy when you have to explain to a victim that the CPS won't be taking any action against a criminal because it wouldn't be in the criminals best interest. I wonder if this would happen less frequently if the decision makers in the CPS had to face victims and tell them, rather than sending a memo. out for Police to do it.

IMHO the Lawmakers, Judiciary, CPS and in some cases Senior Police Officers have lost the plot in as far as Punishment goes, there is to much consideration given to the criminal and not enough to the victim. To say that an immigrant who has murdered in this country cannot be sent back to his own country because he might be killed is, I would suggest, his problem, we are all responsible (unless deemed insane) for our own actions, if you know that you will be deported if you act against the laws of the UK and ignore that fact, its you that has made the decision to do it.

Perfectly good point Janner. I am an academic! I should point out however that more than once I have been the victim of crime, including violent crime (excluding Ganges :wink: ) and have some practical knowledge of the system, albeit some years ago. I did a special study of sexual offences against children during my criminology course (and one on statistics too) and was surprised myself at the data. What appears common-sense is not always so in practice. The aim of the system should be to minimise the number of victims. Driving it underground will have the opposite effect, as the police themselves have pointed out on frequent occasions. Unfortunately in the rush to appear tough, politicians and the right-wing media have a habit of ignoring the experts when the solutions are challenging. Executing convicted paedophiles would drive it underground to a much greater extent than it currently is, just as the News of the World's naming and shaming campaign did some years ago. The police pleaded with them to stop in the interests of children. Did they stop: only when a Paediatrician got attacked as a result of being muddled up by their journalists with paedophiles! So much for wanting to protect children. I think it had rather more to do with circulation & profits, than the welfare of children! I know this is unpalatable, but there it is.
 
In defence of the Journo's (not a regular habit of mine) the paeditrician confusion was caused by the locals of Leigh Park rather than the Newspapers, I recall it all being reported on Meridian News some time ago.

I do agree that naming and shaming often works against what people are trying to achieve and drives the paedophiles underground and out of the areas where they are known and better able to be watched.

I am a strong believer in Capital Punishment, not in a ritulistic way, but by putting down the offender in the same way in which you would a sick animal. ie. Sleeping draught and then lethal injection. I also believe that controlled suicide should be an option, under proper controls, to any prisoner facing long spells in prison. Keeping people like Sutcliffe, Brady or the two Neilsons in prison (I can never see these four being released) is expensive, disruptive and diverts money away from whee it could be doing some good with the prison service.

It is long past time when the victim is given more consideration that the criminal, as I said in an earlier post, if you lock up the right people in any given area (it will be a relatively small number) crime falls by a disproportional amount.

The truth is that to many academic's (no offence intended), people in the Legal profession and some Politically motivated Senior Police Officers, have had to much sway for to long, it is time that there is more input from people at grass routes level so that hopefully some common sense would come into play again. We have the situation at the moment where Police Officers are afraid to stop and check certain sections of the community, because they know that complaints will not only be made against them, but that those complaints will be encourage by those same Senior Officers.
The Governments answer to the problem, make it easier to sack the Police Officer concerned.
 
It hurts to say it, because you are obviously a product of Naval training at some point, but really Nozzer, you talk a load of old swill.

As in another highly publicised case, experts can get the whole subject dramatically wrong if they are allowed their head. And your assertion about homosexuality and paedophilia being "paraphilia", therefore being in some way similar is mind-boggling!

Is criminology an exercise in pushing your head so far up your own exhaust that you can no longer keep a rational perspective? Theories are just that, without incontrovertible proof.

Higthepig's wish for an update is timely. The law is fine. The practitioners of the law and the apologists for the most depraved transgressors are the problem.

Whilst I might understand that some criminals are part-programmed to transgress, that's as far as I am prepared to go. They all, ultimately, have a choice to either live by the law of their society or not. Society must have effective sanctions through its laws or there is no point to the laws in the first place.
 
janner said:
In defence of the Journo's (not a regular habit of mine) the paeditrician confusion was caused by the locals of Leigh Park rather than the Newspapers, I recall it all being reported on Meridian News some time ago.

I do agree that naming and shaming often works against what people are trying to achieve and drives the paedophiles underground and out of the areas where they are known and better able to be watched.

I am a strong believer in Capital Punishment, not in a ritulistic way, but by putting down the offender in the same way in which you would a sick animal. ie. Sleeping draught and then lethal injection. I also believe that controlled suicide should be an option, under proper controls, to any prisoner facing long spells in prison. Keeping people like Sutcliffe, Brady or the two Neilsons in prison (I can never see these four being released) is expensive, disruptive and diverts money away from whee it could be doing some good with the prison service.

It is long past time when the victim is given more consideration that the criminal, as I said in an earlier post, if you lock up the right people in any given area (it will be a relatively small number) crime falls by a disproportional amount.

The truth is that to many academic's (no offence intended), people in the Legal profession and some Politically motivated Senior Police Officers, have had to much sway for to long, it is time that there is more input from people at grass routes level so that hopefully some common sense would come into play again. We have the situation at the moment where Police Officers are afraid to stop and check certain sections of the community, because they know that complaints will not only be made against them, but that those complaints will be encourage by those same Senior Officers.
The Governments answer to the problem, make it easier to sack the Police Officer concerned.

Controlled suicide: you mean active voluntary euthanasia? I would have no moral problem with that. If paedophiles freely opted for euthanasia in preference to a lengthy custodial sentence and it would be completely painless for them, then this would be less of a problem. As to what victims and the Church would say, well that is another matter. The Church would obstruct any such attempt in the Lords.
 
come_the_day said:
It hurts to say it, because you are obviously a product of Naval training at some point, but really Nozzer, you talk a load of old swill.

You can blame it on Ganges if you like: it is responsible for my hightened sensitivity to injustice/justice. But then again, it is probably a quirk in my reasoning. :) You know what we academics are like, living in our ivory gun turrets surrounded by golden rivets!

As in another highly publicised case, experts can get the whole subject dramatically wrong if they are allowed their head. And your assertion about homosexuality and paedophilia being "paraphilia", therefore being in some way similar is mind-boggling!

Have a look at:-

1) The UCH Textbook of Psychiatry;

2) The Oxford Textbook of Medicine.

They are similar, as paraphilia describe abnormal sexual phantasies. If you get sexually aroused by: children, apples, same-sex matelots, furry handcuffs and whips (Crushers beware!), capital punishment (as one famous judge did in sentencing people to hang), wearing square rig or sniffing plimsoles (kit musters at Raleigh?), then you have this condition.

Is criminology an exercise in pushing your head so far up your own exhaust that you can no longer keep a rational perspective? Theories are just that, without incontrovertible proof.

No. Theories are in fact derived from hypotheses.

Higthepig's wish for an update is timely. The law is fine. The practitioners of the law and the apologists for the most depraved transgressors are the problem.

Whilst I might understand that some criminals are part-programmed to transgress, that's as far as I am prepared to go. They all, ultimately, have a choice to either live by the law of their society or not. Society must have effective sanctions through its laws or there is no point to the laws in the first place.

I more or less agree with that point, subject to my aformentioned caveats. You'll just have to face it mate, I'm one of those do-gooder liberals you just cannot cope with. :lol:
 
Some interestimg comments folks.especially about judges.having served for 20 years i agree with most.but one thing is for certain.there is ONE law for the rich and one for the poor
 

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