Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to join our community
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site, connect with other members through your own private inbox and will receive smaller adverts!

The law is an ass ( hole )

Nozzy - we could never see eye to eye on criminal justice in the UK.

Premeditation is just that and there cannot be mitigation for a premeditated murderous or other heinous act, nor can there be extenuating circumstances.

Paedophilia is not an illness, just because it sounds like one. Although the paedophiliac's mind does not work like ours might, they know that what they do is wrong, which should give them a clue that they shouldn't do it. My only experience of them is very much second hand, but what I have seen shows me that they are duplicitous in the extreme to keep their sordid habits hidden. They also target certain professions and positions to come into contact with what may be your and my children.

Tell me that an adult who rapes a 3 month old shouldn't die at the hands of a vengeful society. Do you really agree that we should try to understand this filth?
 
higthepig said:
Yes Nozzer, i understand your views,and i understand what you are saying,what i dont understand is, if the crime is the same ie, rape and murder of a child,where are the extenuating circumstances? the thread was is the law an ass, from what ive seen of justice not only in Engand,but more so up here in the frozen north,im sorry but i have to conclude that it is.But then thats only my opinion,if any of my children ,or grandchildren,were done away with in the same manner,then im afraid i would be serving life.

I would suggest that there is a vast difference between some one who abuses a child having been brought to believe this was wrong, and some one who had been brought up in a state supported childrens home where such behaviour by the staff towards inmates was normal.

I also believe that most people are not beyond redemtion, and that telling such people they are incurable only serves to justify their behaviour, and does nothing to try to help them control themselves in the future.

Peter
 
I also believe that most people are not beyond redemtion, and that telling such people they are incurable only serves to justify their behaviour, and does nothing to try to help them control themselves in the future.

Peter[/quote]

Most is the important word and there is hope for many offenders but I share the opinion of law enforcement groups I have been in contact with and that is once a sex offender always a sex offender and in the case of peds definately no cure apart from a lead injection.
Incidently I found a very good site regarding criminal behaviour and manganese poisoning. The site can be found under the name Mark Purdey for anyone interested. I study the effects of heavy metal on people and this is a remarkable insight into criminal behaviour on Groote Eylandt, a remote island in the Gulf of Carpenteria off the northern coast of Oz for those not familiar with the terrain


:mrgreen:
 
I think there are many "once a **** always a ****" situations, but we have seen with many people, I agree not all, that with help they can control their particular behaviour problems partly because they can see it is unacceptable in society, and partly because they have been told they can and shown how.

Peter
 
I accept that some predatory behaviour is learned, whether in institutions as Maxi 77 describes, or as a result of the indoctination in other areas of life, like the Catholic Church, where even the Cardinal, in his previous job, accepted that the way to deal with a serial assaulter was to move him to a new parish, so he could start again.

I do not want to understand why they do it, I want them to understand that it is wholly wrong and that society will throw away the key when they are caught. My heart will never bleed for anyone who visits grief on others because it happened to them.
 
And then we hear that the poor inmates of our correctional institutions were paid £4,000,000 in compensation settlements last year. All right, 2.7m of that was to one individual, but what's going on? Bet the claimants really gave the health and safety of their victims top consideration when they were robbing, assaulting, murdering, manslaughtering them, eh?

The lunatics are running the asylum.......
 
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
I accept that some predatory behaviour is learned, whether in institutions as Maxi 77 describes, or as a result of the indoctination in other areas of life, like the Catholic Church, where even the Cardinal, in his previous job, accepted that the way to deal with a serial assaulter was to move him to a new parish, so he could start again.

I do not want to understand why they do it, I want them to understand that it is wholly wrong and that society will throw away the key when they are caught. My heart will never bleed for anyone who visits grief on others because it happened to them.

I am not suggesting that because they were indoctrinated into the system as youngsters is a reason for us to just ignore, but perhaps they do deserve some sympathy and the opportunity to try to reform, after all they did not volunteer for abuse, as equally their victims did not. I agree that guilt is digital, you either are guilty or not, but the level of wickeness in the person does vary, and we should try to see that.

Perhaps showing them that you do understand why they behaved in that way will create a way for them to see just how wrong they are and that they must make ammends. Just throwing the key away punishes them for being a victim themselves, do you agree with that.

Peter
 
Maxi 77

I am afraid that I do not agree. Some people are inevitably victims of others' wrongdoing, but the fact that you have been a victim cannot condone your visiting the same behaviour on others, unless you are intellectually unable to compute the lesson. However, if you are really not intelligent enough to be able to distinguish right from wrong, there is a case for keeping you under lock, key and observation anyway.

I have very little time for any organised religion, but I try to live by the biblical principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and unless the individual is really sick, that would mean that they could never use the excuse "It happened to me, therefore......"
 
All nonces should be nuetered and preferably hung. Anyone who takes away a childs innocence has no right to breath the same air as other people.

It's amazing how becoming a dad pushes you just a little further to the right wing.

Lucky Hitler never had kids.
 
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Maxi 77

I am afraid that I do not agree. Some people are inevitably victims of others' wrongdoing, but the fact that you have been a victim cannot condone your visiting the same behaviour on others, unless you are intellectually unable to compute the lesson. However, if you are really not intelligent enough to be able to distinguish right from wrong, there is a case for keeping you under lock, key and observation anyway.

I have very little time for any organised religion, but I try to live by the biblical principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and unless the individual is really sick, that would mean that they could never use the excuse "It happened to me, therefore......"

As some one who has no time for organised religion, I find your lack of charity and human understanding depressing.

Peter
 
Skunkmiester said:
All nonces should be nuetered and preferably hung. Anyone who takes away a childs innocence has no right to breath the same air as other people.

It's amazing how becoming a dad pushes you just a little further to the right wing.

Lucky Hitler never had kids.

Yet a large number of the abusers abuse their own children as their parents abused them, sort of blows your theory out of the water.

Peter
 
Have i got it right? if some immigrant tortures and murders someone,they cant be sent back in case they are totured and murdered ? and the law isnt an ass? can someone do a survey on these pages and see what the answer is up to now? Is the law an ass.Whats the majority opinion?
 
come_the_day said:
Nozzy - we could never see eye to eye on criminal justice in the UK.

Premeditation is just that and there cannot be mitigation for a premeditated murderous or other heinous act, nor can there be extenuating circumstances.

Paedophilia is not an illness, just because it sounds like one. Although the paedophiliac's mind does not work like ours might, they know that what they do is wrong, which should give them a clue that they shouldn't do it. My only experience of them is very much second hand, but what I have seen shows me that they are duplicitous in the extreme to keep their sordid habits hidden. They also target certain professions and positions to come into contact with what may be your and my children.

Tell me that an adult who rapes a 3 month old shouldn't die at the hands of a vengeful society. Do you really agree that we should try to understand this filth?

I share Peter's views below. As for asserting that paedophilia is not an illness, well we simply disagree. I agree that many (but not all) paedophiles elect to perform acts of abuse and are very evasive to the point of shifting the blame elsewhere, but I also think that this paraphilia cannot simply be attributed to free will. The behaviour, like homosexuality, is fundamentally illogical and irrational, and we should endevour through scientific research to find the causes in order to effect treatments, cures or at least if detectible in utero, to facilitate abortion. Capital punishment for paedophilia is however counterproductive. In practice all it would achieve would be to exacerbate the current situation. Victims would be less likely to report abuse. Juries would be less willing to convict. Non-offenders with paedophilic phantasies would not come forward to community psychiatric services (as some currently do) for treatment in order to prevent them offending. In consequence all capital punishment would do is to exacerbate the problem. This would mean more victims, more offences.
 
Nozzer, how can you compare homosexuality and peadophilia? It's like comparing hetrosexual love making to rape. You are talking - or more accurately printing - utter nonsense.
What two consenting adults do in private is none of my, or your, business. As long as we are not forced to watch, participate or subsidise it.
One more time for the hard of thinking: child molestors are not misguided. They are not ill. And once they have abused a child, they are no longer victims, no matter what abuse they have suffered in the past. Child molestors are EVIL. Forget all the psyco-babble bovine excrement. If you abuse a child for your own sexual gratification, you are EVIL. Full stop. End of story.
I've said it before but it bears repeating: you can't cure a rabid dog or a paedophile. You have to put them down.
There is no hard evidence to suggest that juries would be less likely to convict if capital punishment was reintroduced. Especially with the advances in DNA technology, which can offer proof beyond any reasonable doubt. And I also fail to see how the death penality would deter victims or their parents making complaints. Most parents have an instictive pass-me-my-shotgun attitude towards paedophiles, and rightly so.
People who do not beleive that childmolestors should either be executed or locked up until they die are at best niave and at worst cowards.
 
ThePunisher said:
Nozzer, how can you compare homosexuality and peadophilia? It's like comparing hetrosexual love making to rape. You are talking - or more accurately printing - utter nonsense.
What two consenting adults do in private is none of my, or your, business. As long as we are not forced to watch, participate or subsidise it.

I am not writing utter nonsense. I am not likening them in the sense of labelling both acts as wrong as I too regard the sexual activities of consenting adults in private as being a personal matter, however both homosexuality & paedophilia are paraphilia, that is sexual disorders. In many parts of the Muslim world homosexuality is punishible by death (ironically, unlike paedophilia) whilst in other countries (particularly Christian & Communist ones) it is an imprisonable offence. One should also bear in mind that the Catholic Church in Poland does not distinguish, it seems, between the two. They treat homosexuality and paedophilia as the same thing! Were your remedy to be adopted sooner or later homosexuals would end up being killed. It would be more humane if homosexuality could be remedied.

There is no hard evidence to suggest that juries would be less likely to convict if capital punishment was reintroduced.

Sorry, but there is. It was one of the reasons why it was abolished in the 1960s.

...with the advances in DNA technology, which can offer proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

This is scientifically flawed. DNA evidence alone cannot secure a safe conviction. Corroborating evidence is essential.

I also fail to see how the death penality would deter victims or their parents making complaints. Most parents have an instictive pass-me-my-shotgun attitude towards paedophiles, and rightly so.

It does. One of the paradoxes is that the more severe the penalties, the harder it is to obtain a conviction. But then much in our criminal justice process defies apparent logic. One might call it seredipidy, or something like that.

People who do not beleive that childmolestors should either be executed or locked up until they die are at best niave and at worst cowards.

Well you would say that, wouldn't you! In fact I would take a different view. Popular sentiment is very easy to follow. (Nietzsche called it the herd mentality in the individual). It is much more difficult to take an unpopular position and argue it. I know this as I remember arging in favour of promoting people regardless of skin colour within the RN at a time when the popular view was that it would undermine unit cohesion; I was in favour of women at sea and saw no good reason why homosexuals should be kicked out of the Service. The latter view was particularly controversial and expressing sympathy at one time (eg when the MoD did a survey of opinions in the 1980s) was sufficient to get you threatened with investigation by the Crushers! Do you call that cowardice? If you do, it's a novel interpretation. As for naivity, well I simply disagree. You might like to discuss the matter in some depth with the Metropolitan Police's Child Abuse Investigation Command, who could point out to you the problems of driving the problem underground, which is exactly what your proposals would achieve. Another useful source of information is the NSPCC.
 

Latest Threads

Top