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Thanks from a Yank

Bergen

ADC
WreckerL said:
Merlin28 said:
Bergen said:
Druid said:
"So what were your suggestions for dealing with Iraq then NZB? perhaps let people continue to starve due to the actions of the regime"

But isn't that exactly what we're doing with Zim??

The Iraqis were starving because of sanctions sponsored by the USA and forced through the UN by them.

Because the sanctions weren't working fast enough to force regime change George the Simpleton fabricated evidence to support an invasion and aided and abetted by the Brits own tame war-criminal Antony Lytton Bliar, off we went.

You may recall the comment by Albright contained in the paragraph below.

The controversy dates from 1995, when researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children. The New York Times picked up the story and declared "Iraq Sanctions Kill Children." CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

RM :thumbright:


I thought we were fooled into the iraq war because they had Weapons of mass destruction just inside their oil fields :wink:

America, F*CK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother * day yeah,
America, F*CK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, F*CK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, F*CK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it�s the dream that we all share; it�s the hope for tomorrow

F*CK YEAH!

McDonalds, F*CK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, F*CK YEAH!
The Gap, F*CK YEAH!
Baseball, F*CK YEAH!
NFL, F*CK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, F*CK YEAH!
The Internet, F*CK YEAH!
Slavery, F*CK YEAH!

F*CK YEAH!

Starbucks, F*CK YEAH!
Disney world, F*CK YEAH!
Porno, F*CK YEAH!
Valium, F*CK YEAH!
Reeboks, F*CK YEAH!
Fake Tits, F*CK YEAH!
Sushi, F*CK YEAH!
Taco Bell, F*CK YEAH!
Rodeos, F*CK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (F*ck yeah, F*ck yeah)

Liberty, F*CK YEAH!
White Slips, F*CK YEAH!
The Alamo, F*CK YEAH!
Band-aids, F*CK YEAH!
Las Vegas, F*CK YEAH!
Christmas, F*CK YEAH!
Immigrants, F*CK YEAH!
Popeye, F*CK YEAH!
Democrats, F*CK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(f*ck yeah, f*ck yeah)


What is all that supposed to prove, not your argument surely.


It's the theme song from "Team America - World Police"
 
WreckerL said:
Merlin28 said:
Bergen said:
Druid said:
"So what were your suggestions for dealing with Iraq then NZB? perhaps let people continue to starve due to the actions of the regime"

But isn't that exactly what we're doing with Zim??

The Iraqis were starving because of sanctions sponsored by the USA and forced through the UN by them.

Because the sanctions weren't working fast enough to force regime change George the Simpleton fabricated evidence to support an invasion and aided and abetted by the Brits own tame war-criminal Antony Lytton Bliar, off we went.

You may recall the comment by Albright contained in the paragraph below.

The controversy dates from 1995, when researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children. The New York Times picked up the story and declared "Iraq Sanctions Kill Children." CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

RM :thumbright:


I thought we were fooled into the iraq war because they had Weapons of mass destruction just inside their oil fields :wink:

America, F*CK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother * day yeah,
America, F*CK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, F*CK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, F*CK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it�s the dream that we all share; it�s the hope for tomorrow

F*CK YEAH!

McDonalds, F*CK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, F*CK YEAH!
The Gap, F*CK YEAH!
Baseball, F*CK YEAH!
NFL, F*CK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, F*CK YEAH!
The Internet, F*CK YEAH!
Slavery, F*CK YEAH!

F*CK YEAH!

Starbucks, F*CK YEAH!
Disney world, F*CK YEAH!
Porno, F*CK YEAH!
Valium, F*CK YEAH!
Reeboks, F*CK YEAH!
Fake Tits, F*CK YEAH!
Sushi, F*CK YEAH!
Taco Bell, F*CK YEAH!
Rodeos, F*CK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (F*ck yeah, F*ck yeah)

Liberty, F*CK YEAH!
White Slips, F*CK YEAH!
The Alamo, F*CK YEAH!
Band-aids, F*CK YEAH!
Las Vegas, F*CK YEAH!
Christmas, F*CK YEAH!
Immigrants, F*CK YEAH!
Popeye, F*CK YEAH!
Democrats, F*CK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(f*ck yeah, f*ck yeah)


What is all that supposed to prove, not your argument surely.


That he knows a lot of businesses in the US, traditions, political parties etc?
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Bergen said:
WreckerL said:
Merlin28 said:
Bergen said:
Druid said:
"So what were your suggestions for dealing with Iraq then NZB? perhaps let people continue to starve due to the actions of the regime"

But isn't that exactly what we're doing with Zim??

The Iraqis were starving because of sanctions sponsored by the USA and forced through the UN by them.

Because the sanctions weren't working fast enough to force regime change George the Simpleton fabricated evidence to support an invasion and aided and abetted by the Brits own tame war-criminal Antony Lytton Bliar, off we went.

You may recall the comment by Albright contained in the paragraph below.

The controversy dates from 1995, when researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children. The New York Times picked up the story and declared "Iraq Sanctions Kill Children." CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

RM :thumbright:


I thought we were fooled into the iraq war because they had Weapons of mass destruction just inside their oil fields :wink:

America, F*CK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother * day yeah,
America, F*CK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, F*CK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, F*CK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it�s the dream that we all share; it�s the hope for tomorrow

F*CK YEAH!

McDonalds, F*CK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, F*CK YEAH!
The Gap, F*CK YEAH!
Baseball, F*CK YEAH!
NFL, F*CK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, F*CK YEAH!
The Internet, F*CK YEAH!
Slavery, F*CK YEAH!

F*CK YEAH!

Starbucks, F*CK YEAH!
Disney world, F*CK YEAH!
Porno, F*CK YEAH!
Valium, F*CK YEAH!
Reeboks, F*CK YEAH!
Fake Tits, F*CK YEAH!
Sushi, F*CK YEAH!
Taco Bell, F*CK YEAH!
Rodeos, F*CK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (F*ck yeah, F*ck yeah)

Liberty, F*CK YEAH!
White Slips, F*CK YEAH!
The Alamo, F*CK YEAH!
Band-aids, F*CK YEAH!
Las Vegas, F*CK YEAH!
Christmas, F*CK YEAH!
Immigrants, F*CK YEAH!
Popeye, F*CK YEAH!
Democrats, F*CK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(f*ck yeah, f*ck yeah)


What is all that supposed to prove, not your argument surely.


It's the theme song from "Team America - World Police"


Never heard of them or it?(and I don't need a youtube link)
 

Merlin28

War Hero
WreckerL said:
Bergen said:
WreckerL said:
Merlin28 said:
Bergen said:
Druid said:
"So what were your suggestions for dealing with Iraq then NZB? perhaps let people continue to starve due to the actions of the regime"

But isn't that exactly what we're doing with Zim??

The Iraqis were starving because of sanctions sponsored by the USA and forced through the UN by them.

Because the sanctions weren't working fast enough to force regime change George the Simpleton fabricated evidence to support an invasion and aided and abetted by the Brits own tame war-criminal Antony Lytton Bliar, off we went.

You may recall the comment by Albright contained in the paragraph below.

The controversy dates from 1995, when researchers with a Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) study in Iraq wrote to The Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society, asserting that sanctions were responsible for the deaths of 567,000 Iraqi children. The New York Times picked up the story and declared "Iraq Sanctions Kill Children." CBS followed up with a segment on 60 Minutes that repeated the numbers and depicted sanctions as a murderous assault on children. This was the program in which UN ambassador (and later Secretary of State) Madeleine Albright, when asked about these numbers, coldly stated, "The price is worth it."

RM :thumbright:


I thought we were fooled into the iraq war because they had Weapons of mass destruction just inside their oil fields :wink:

America, F*CK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother * day yeah,
America, F*CK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
America, F*CK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
America, F*CK YEAH!
What you going to do when we come for you now,
it�s the dream that we all share; it�s the hope for tomorrow

F*CK YEAH!

McDonalds, F*CK YEAH!
Wal-Mart, F*CK YEAH!
The Gap, F*CK YEAH!
Baseball, F*CK YEAH!
NFL, F*CK, YEAH!
Rock and roll, F*CK YEAH!
The Internet, F*CK YEAH!
Slavery, F*CK YEAH!

F*CK YEAH!

Starbucks, F*CK YEAH!
Disney world, F*CK YEAH!
Porno, F*CK YEAH!
Valium, F*CK YEAH!
Reeboks, F*CK YEAH!
Fake Tits, F*CK YEAH!
Sushi, F*CK YEAH!
Taco Bell, F*CK YEAH!
Rodeos, F*CK YEAH!
Bed bath and beyond (F*ck yeah, F*ck yeah)

Liberty, F*CK YEAH!
White Slips, F*CK YEAH!
The Alamo, F*CK YEAH!
Band-aids, F*CK YEAH!
Las Vegas, F*CK YEAH!
Christmas, F*CK YEAH!
Immigrants, F*CK YEAH!
Popeye, F*CK YEAH!
Democrats, F*CK YEAH!
Republicans (republicans)
(f*ck yeah, f*ck yeah)


What is all that supposed to prove, not your argument surely.


It's the theme song from "Team America - World Police"


Never heard of them or it?(and I don't need a youtube link)


Its a funny movie that takes the piss out of america
 

IS-Potential

Lantern Swinger
I wasn't going to rise to NZB's bait but hey what the hell.

The people of Iraq did ask for help, as I recall they tried to overthrow Saddam after being informed that they would get backing from foreign nations, however they got sold out in an attempt to keep Iraq unified. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/30/iraq.guardianobituaries)
Not to mention subsequent infighting etc.

They had shattered most of his "million-man army" except for its elite Republican Guards, held in reserve to defend the regime against the wrath of the people. And this time their wrath was truly unleashed. The two oppressed majorities, Shias and Kurds, staged their great uprisings. These began spontaneously, when a Shia tank commander, having fled from Kuwait to Basra, positioned his vehicle in front of one of those gigantic, ubiquitous murals of the tyrant and addressed it thus: "What has befallen us of defeat, shame and humiliation, Saddam, is the result of your follies, your miscalculations and your irresponsible actions."

But the uprisings foundered on the rock of Saddam's residual strength, western betrayal and, in the south, their own disorganisation, vengeful excesses and failure to distance themselves from Iranian expansionist designs. Exploiting the Sunni minority's fear that if he went, so would many of them, in the most horrible of massacres, Saddam sent in his guards. Dreadful atrocities accompanied the slow reconquest of the south. And when the Guards turned north, the whole population of "liberated" Kurdistan fled in panic through snow and bitter cold to Iran and Turkey.

The television images of that grim stampede caught the measure of western betrayal. Four weeks previously, President George Bush senior had urged the Iraqis to rise up. But when they did so, he turned a deaf ear to their pleas for help. "New Hitler" Saddam might be, but he was also the only barrier against the possible break-up of Iraq itself. Saudi Arabia, for one, could not tolerate the prospect. It told the US it would work to replace Saddam with an army officer who would keep the country in safe, authoritarian, Sunni Muslim hands.

Saddam was saved again. And for 12 more years he hung on, as his people sank into social, economic and political miseries incomparably greater than those which had propelled him into Kuwait. Tikriti solidarity continued to preserve him against putsch and assassination. And never again would the people stage an uprising without assurance of success. Only the west could provide that. But the West, preoccupied with other crises, was paralysed.

The UN was meant to cure the failings of the League of Nations, however it has simply descended into the farce that the League of Nations. Ineffectual and lumbered with 2 opposing power blocks.

If the UN fails to uphold and enforce its own resolutions and charters, then what happens? People simply are left to oppression, torture, genocide? That isn't right at all.

The UK and the RN does have a history of acting for the good of others - disruption to the slave trade and work towards abolition of the slave trade as a very good example. However I sense NZB that you would have opposed such as actions as "interfering with the affairs of a sovereign state" given we attacked vessels belonging to other sovereign nations and attempted to prevent nations from selling members of their population as slaves to other nations.

The UN needs reform, as currently it is a toothless tiger with delusions of grandeur. Example being Rwanda where Dallaire asked for more troops and was refused time after time after time or the Srebrenica massacre. Both of which I am sure as an ex-Royal Marine you fully aware of.

I don't think either of those situations exactly make a case for the effectiveness of the UN in its current state, nor international laws on dealing with states who oppress and commit what could potentially be viewed as crimes against humanity such as those committed in both pre and post war Iraq. I'm talking about everyone, not just Saddam, not just Americans. Perhaps unfeasible to bring everyone to trial but something to aspire to, otherwise we could all to easily be on the slippery slope back to racks, thumbscrews and other methods of torture as a matter of course.

I don't agree with the way Saddam Hussein was deposed, there seems to have been no plan to deal with what happened after the fall of Saddam, plus all the backroom deals enacted by Cheney and friends did not help either. The weapons of mass destruction argument did not hold water at all, Perhaps if they had simply deposed him for the crimes he committed against his own population and actually had a plan of what to do next then things might not have turned into a bloodbath and a collection of neo con dodgy backroom deals.

Things are not a utopia, but why should we not aspire to create one? Where everyone is guaranteed a set of fundamental rights and those who contravene said rights are held to account.

I don't apologise for suggesting ways to act for the better, nor for suggesting intervention in the affairs of others where it would be for the good of the populace overall. Perhaps if Dallaire had been given a force with teeth and not had his hands tied then Rwanda might be remembered for something other than the massacres and genocide.

However I'm sure you will shoot down whatever I say no matter what I say. So I'm not going to bother arguing or trying to further a discussion with you. You have your views and I have mine.
 

Bergen

ADC
IS-Potential said:
I wasn't going to rise to NZB's bait but hey what the hell.

The people of Iraq did ask for help, as I recall they tried to overthrow Saddam after being informed that they would get backing from foreign nations, however they got sold out in an attempt to keep Iraq unified. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/30/iraq.guardianobituaries)
Not to mention subsequent infighting etc.

They had shattered most of his "million-man army" except for its elite Republican Guards, held in reserve to defend the regime against the wrath of the people. And this time their wrath was truly unleashed. The two oppressed majorities, Shias and Kurds, staged their great uprisings. These began spontaneously, when a Shia tank commander, having fled from Kuwait to Basra, positioned his vehicle in front of one of those gigantic, ubiquitous murals of the tyrant and addressed it thus: "What has befallen us of defeat, shame and humiliation, Saddam, is the result of your follies, your miscalculations and your irresponsible actions."

But the uprisings foundered on the rock of Saddam's residual strength, western betrayal and, in the south, their own disorganisation, vengeful excesses and failure to distance themselves from Iranian expansionist designs. Exploiting the Sunni minority's fear that if he went, so would many of them, in the most horrible of massacres, Saddam sent in his guards. Dreadful atrocities accompanied the slow reconquest of the south. And when the Guards turned north, the whole population of "liberated" Kurdistan fled in panic through snow and bitter cold to Iran and Turkey.

The television images of that grim stampede caught the measure of western betrayal. Four weeks previously, President George Bush senior had urged the Iraqis to rise up. But when they did so, he turned a deaf ear to their pleas for help. "New Hitler" Saddam might be, but he was also the only barrier against the possible break-up of Iraq itself. Saudi Arabia, for one, could not tolerate the prospect. It told the US it would work to replace Saddam with an army officer who would keep the country in safe, authoritarian, Sunni Muslim hands.

Saddam was saved again. And for 12 more years he hung on, as his people sank into social, economic and political miseries incomparably greater than those which had propelled him into Kuwait. Tikriti solidarity continued to preserve him against putsch and assassination. And never again would the people stage an uprising without assurance of success. Only the west could provide that. But the West, preoccupied with other crises, was paralysed.

The UN was meant to cure the failings of the League of Nations, however it has simply descended into the farce that the League of Nations. Ineffectual and lumbered with 2 opposing power blocks.

If the UN fails to uphold and enforce its own resolutions and charters, then what happens? People simply are left to oppression, torture, genocide? That isn't right at all.

The UK and the RN does have a history of acting for the good of others - disruption to the slave trade and work towards abolition of the slave trade as a very good example. However I sense NZB that you would have opposed such as actions as "interfering with the affairs of a sovereign state" given we attacked vessels belonging to other sovereign nations and attempted to prevent nations from selling members of their population as slaves to other nations.

The UN needs reform, as currently it is a toothless tiger with delusions of grandeur. Example being Rwanda where Dallaire asked for more troops and was refused time after time after time or the Srebrenica massacre. Both of which I am sure as an ex-Royal Marine you fully aware of.

I don't think either of those situations exactly make a case for the effectiveness of the UN in its current state, nor international laws on dealing with states who oppress and commit what could potentially be viewed as crimes against humanity such as those committed in both pre and post war Iraq. I'm talking about everyone, not just Saddam, not just Americans. Perhaps unfeasible to bring everyone to trial but something to aspire to, otherwise we could all to easily be on the slippery slope back to racks, thumbscrews and other methods of torture as a matter of course.

I don't agree with the way Saddam Hussein was deposed, there seems to have been no plan to deal with what happened after the fall of Saddam, plus all the backroom deals enacted by Cheney and friends did not help either. The weapons of mass destruction argument did not hold water at all, Perhaps if they had simply deposed him for the crimes he committed against his own population and actually had a plan of what to do next then things might not have turned into a bloodbath and a collection of neo con dodgy backroom deals.

Things are not a utopia, but why should we not aspire to create one? Where everyone is guaranteed a set of fundamental rights and those who contravene said rights are held to account.

I don't apologise for suggesting ways to act for the better, nor for suggesting intervention in the affairs of others where it would be for the good of the populace overall. Perhaps if Dallaire had been given a force with teeth and not had his hands tied then Rwanda might be remembered for something other than the massacres and genocide.

However I'm sure you will shoot down whatever I say no matter what I say. So I'm not going to bother arguing or trying to further a discussion with you. You have your views and I have mine.

I am pretty sure that NZB will be as devastated as everyone else upon hearing this.
 

IS-Potential

Lantern Swinger
Oh and the Iraqi's reintroduced the death penalty partly for cultural reasons, but mainly to make their justice system look more effective. Population cried foul at the numbers of murders happening with seeming impunity and reintroduced the death penalty to be seen to be taking control, however several have been botched due failure to replace ropes, poor measuring of ropes etc

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1558285-1,00.html

Given some of the comments here,you would think the topic was in Lils rather than being in current affairs.
 

Bergen

ADC
IS-Potential said:
Oh and the Iraqi's reintroduced the death penalty partly for cultural reasons, but mainly to make their justice system look more effective. Population cried foul at the numbers of murders happening with seeming impunity and reintroduced the death penalty to be seen to be taking control, however several have been botched due failure to replace ropes, poor measuring of ropes etc

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1558285-1,00.html

Given some of the comments here,you would think the topic was in Lils rather than being in current affairs.

Saddam Must Hang [But Only For Cultural Reasons]


http://www.navy-net.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=3269/highlight=hanging.html

 

IS-Potential

Lantern Swinger
Fair point on the execution of Saddam, though I would suggest it was more the Shi'ites wanted him dead ASAP and the Americans let the Shi'ites get on with it, rather than urging them to do it ASAP or siding with the Kurds.

The Iraqis did restore the death penalty on their own volition though it seems.

Saddam was going to be executed sooner rather than later, all a matter of timing in the end,whether it was the rope, or knife in the back or someone bombing the prison. If the Americans had wanted a cover-up would it not have been simpler to have killed him in a "shoot out" during capture or a car crash or even a "roadside bomb" en route to detention?

To be honest, it could be a combination of both for all anyone knows, American influence coupled with Shia desire for revenge. Or it could be as simple as Shia's wanting revenge as soon as possible for prior deeds of the Ba'ath regime.

I am disappointed they did not try him for the crimes against the Kurds, leaves them without closure or the chance to make him face his crimes fully.
 

Bergen

ADC
IS-Potential said:
Fair point on the execution of Saddam, though I would suggest it was more the Shi'ites wanted him dead ASAP and the Americans let the Shi'ites get on with it, rather than urging them to do it ASAP or siding with the Kurds.

The Iraqis did restore the death penalty on their own volition though it seems.

Saddam was going to be executed sooner rather than later, all a matter of timing in the end,whether it was the rope, or knife in the back or someone bombing the prison. If the Americans had wanted a cover-up would it not have been simpler to have killed him in a "shoot out" during capture or a car crash or even a "roadside bomb" en route to detention?

To be honest, it could be a combination of both for all anyone knows, American influence coupled with Shia desire for revenge. Or it could be as simple as Shia's wanting revenge as soon as possible for prior deeds of the Ba'ath regime.

I am disappointed they did not try him for the crimes against the Kurds, leaves them without closure or the chance to make him face his crimes fully.

There was absolutely no way that the Elmers were ever going to give Saddam a fair trial or allow him to speak about the Kurds. Too many powerful Americans would have been implicated:-

From the linked thread on his execution:-

There seems to be more news and a little more clarity around the circumstances leading up to the hanging.

The top two US officials in Iraq were both away on leave [General Casey Head of US Forces and US Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzhad]. Neither had knowledge of the intended execution and both attempted to stop it by urging the US not to hand over custody of Saddam Hussein.

They were overruled by Condoleeza Rice [AKA Madam Supertanker] and Stephen Hadley, a well known neocon and Shrub's security advisor. The President of Iraq Jalal Talabani refused to sign the execution order and also attempted to stop it being carried out until after Eid.

More worrying - and something that is being widely reported in the Arab press is that the Shi'ite militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr was actually in the execution room and was one of the hooded figures verbally abusing Saddam Hussein in the seconds before his death. Also reported is that the hangman's noose is in al-Sadr's possession and that a Kuwaiti businessman is offering $10 million for it.

Money for old rope?

RM
________________
 

Bergen

ADC
cornishgolfer said:
same ol anti US tripe eh burgin

No wonder you were given a much deserved O2 Thief tag.

Cornwall must have breathed a collective sigh of relief when you left the Duchy to seek fame and fortune in Florida; reduced to being a plastic Yank flogging cheap and tacky houses to tourists in Orlando [before that all crashed and burned].

What's your line now? Foreclosures and mortgage advice? :bball:

RM
 

Rayal

Newbie
I purposely waited to respond until I was more sure of the opinions in this forum. I'm new to your forums obviously as this is my second post. I knew ahead of time that there are British, Canadian, and Australians that are mad, angry, disappointed, etc. with Americans. We feel that and it does make us look inward. It does bother us that so many people hate us in the world.

However, my sentiments were genuine and sincere. I really didn't intend for this thread to be an opportunity to express opinions, but it is also the very reason that we have been fighting these terrible wars. It is for freedom, but its also for freedom of speech.

When I had wrote the original post it was at the end of a very long day that I had spent with my friends here in Florida. We went to a war memorial at the Ft. Lauderdale victory gardens. It was not a happy time, and I will not ever go to another one. You get a chance to talk to several people that are touched in many ways by the deaths in these wars such as myself. Its a feeling that you can't shake easily, and its not for people to make light of.

Talking to my friends at breakfast this morning, I told them that I had wrote this thread to thank the Royal Navy, Marines, and all British forces. They immediately wanted to know what the response was like. I told them it was what I had expected. They, like me, understood the first picture of the young lady with the T-shirt, and we liked that though and understood the humor, and also the possible political implications as well.

Merlin28's post was a song that he didn't explain why he posted it. So I had to assume it was a way to maybe slam us....honestly its not clear or even important at this point. Just know that we have a lot of things here that we ourselves don't like. There are large corporations that have this cold nature, money driven attitude, and are so unlike what we as a people represent. You just see their ads and assume we all are that way, and I think that is why we resent them so much.

What I really want to drive home to you all is that we sincerely, honestly, and without manipulation or some sort of underlying conspiracy, was to thank some of you for your country's commitment to these wars. Right or wrong, a great price has been paid for your young people to have sacrificed. We all know why we are there for the most part and want to believe that we are doing the right thing. Its possible we are not, but as long as we have troops there and you have troops there, we do feel this thankfulness towards you.

Personally I believe if we persevere long enough we can get out of there, and hopefully go through a long period of peace again. Thank you all who posted your responses, but my deepest respect goes to those who were grateful and understood the sentiment.

Like I said...it had been a very long day...

Good luck to you all.

Rayal
 

finknottle

Banned
witsend said:
Don't worry about it mate, the other nations that receive special treatment are, in no particular order,,

Jocks
Krauts
Nips
Frogs
Spicks
Boggies

:wink:

You forgot the English who should genetically should go alongside the Krauts and Frogs. :wink:


Rayal, your post made for good reading.
 

X.R.D

War Hero
finknottle said:
witsend said:
Don't worry about it mate, the other nations that receive special treatment are, in no particular order,,

Jocks
Krauts
Nips
Frogs
Spicks
Boggies

:wink:

You forgot the English who should genetically should go alongside the Krauts and Frogs. :wink:


Rayal, your post made for good reading.

Agreed
 

IS-Potential

Lantern Swinger
Indeed it did make good reading Rayal,
Personally I don't judge an entire nation by the actions of a few. Though I know some around here do, which is their choice.

On the whole the Americans I know and also those I have met in the passing have on the whole been open and welcoming people and proud of their country . Something this country lacks at times, too often I feel people are ready to tear modern Britain down because of actions taken in the past. (I used to live just across the Canadian / USA border, pretty much opposite Erie PA)

I have met some intolerant Americans, but then again I have met a lot of intolerant Brits, Canadians, Ozzies , Poles and many other nations also. So intolerance and backwards thinking seems to be a world wide issue. Just seems to be that the USA gets attention paid than other nations.

The UK and the USA have a shared past, differences yes, but more similarities than differences, I think WW2 demonstrated what could be achieved when we work together rather than against each other. I think that some forget without the co-operation between nations, at the very least there was a strong possibility of Europe speaking German as their first language and the potential for the Nazi's to have developed the atomic bomb first.

I just hope that the fall out from the current fiasco in the Gulf of Mexico does not harm relations between our 2 nations, despite the media on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean's best efforts to stoke the flames of hate.

For the record, I would willingly take up the opportunity for an exchange with the USN / US Forces generally to compare working styles and cultures first hand, rather than rely on second hand accounts. Sometimes both sides learn something from the other, at other times it simply demonstrates that similar culture can differ in many ways.

If certain people wish to shoot me down for that last paragraph, then I'm not really fussed, shows them to be rather insular minded rather than keeping an open mind and world view.

But I digress, Best of luck for the future for you, your family and your countrymen at large.
 
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