Thank f**k thats over

Discussion in 'The Quarterdeck' started by angry_mac, Jul 25, 2008.

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  1. 3 weeks of weapon training, 6 weeks of BOST, 2 weeks of DCT (deployment continuation training), and finally we have finished, with a big fat SAT, My own department got a vsat, dont really care, as long as we didnt have to repeat anything, unlike our poor sister ship, who have to repeat the final two weeks again, and do DCT next year.
    Its not that BOST, is any harder, in fact compared to when I did it at Portland in '93 its easier. Just 11 weeks of it is harder to swallow than 2 weeks shakedown and 4 weeks of BOST as it use to be.
    Well did I learn anything new, one thing..... there is another meal in the day, apparently its called Breakfast, wtf is that all about.

    Is it me or is there some FOSTIES out there who have just completely lost what it is like to be on a ship, and adopted FOST shit. I am quite taken aback by certain Fosties who I knew and served with before they went to FOST, and who have turned completly ****.

    In the end, do I feel trained, personally no, but what I have seen is the ship's company gel as a team. Is this because of FOST or or in spite of FOST. That really depends on your branch. The Warfareys have really turned from a raw bunch into a team that I would be happy to fight and defend the ship Im in. As part of an engineering department, BOST was a pain in the arse, honestly repairing a single mutli core cable in BA in the dark isnt really teaching me anything.

    What I did find though, from week to week, were we doing anything different, no, but we would be a Below standard or SAT in week 2/3 but by week 4/5 we are a SAT/VSAT even a GOOD, but in what we did, nothing had seem to have changed. But our FOSTIES are saying,'look we've trained them now, they are so much better because of us', what a load of bollox.
    Anyways one FOSTY highlighted it all to me on DAY1 WEEK 1 for our MASC(the old staff sea check). 'Here I am 25 yrs done, a W01, and Im kicking Resilient Mounts.....'

    Anyone with similar moans, or a dit from the point of view of a 'fosty'.
  2. witsend

    witsend War Hero Book Reviewer

    Best bit is " its FOST policy"

    "since when? "since we said!"

    Do a good job, sometimes repetitive with some members that believe they suddenly don't sh*t.
  3. 'Here I am 25 yrs done, a W01, and Im kicking Resilient Mounts.....

    If that is true, something that stopped yesrs agao

    But if they are back to the **** ways, this is how to increase the pick up lists
  4. I was once a 'sea-rider' and can confirm that it is all complete FOST twaddle. FOST sea-riders (like the staff at RALEIGH, Dartmouth, Collingwood etc)should be the best of the best; hand picked to pass on thier knowledge. Instead (and generally through no fault of their own) we have people who don't know what they're talking about. FOST(MPV) (small plastic ships) is generally composed of people who've never had a small ship, therefore have no credibility and get a stiff ignoring. Some things never change.
  5. Its worth remembering that FOSTIES are drafted not selected. An organisation full of people who cant or wont go to sea telling those who live the job how to do it.
    The ultimate self licking lollipop.
  6. How many Fosties are there now? I heard they overtook submariners in the numbers stakes some years ago. I know training is important (ask Jellicoe) but surely the number of trainers is out of proportion to the overall numbers in the service, particularly when there are so many gaps and the sea to shore ratio is laughable.

    ps I love Fosties, but I couldn't eat a whole boxful!
  7. Apparently (any serving or ex fosties feel free to jump in here) FOST employs about 600 pairs of steaming boots. The majority of which are at Lt Cdr/Lt/WO/ CPO level. I would suggest that savings made there could well hae a sig impact on manning levels on the coalface, without serously affecting OC.
  8. (E(TM) hat on) SO how else are you going to gel a ships company together? Even with a big run ashore (think of all the negative PR with matelots falling out of bars and getting into scraps with the locals) you'll never get anything like the comeraderie and pressure. BSSC is all about putting you into highly stressful experiences and making sure the communication is there - you're not going to get that with some drill that nobody takes seriously. So forget the DRIU and the rest of Whale Island's finest, the requirement is to make you all work together as a team against an assesed environment.

    Do you have any other suggestions on how to achieve this?

    (Hat off - pass me the rum)
  9. I,m not questioning the need for some form of validation process, and since I've just come back from the pub I'm not going to reel out a load of suggestions. I just feel that we can no longer remove 500 bodies fom the front line just so we can waste a load of time and effort reinventing the wheel every 2and a half years. The Sea training process needs to be smaller, more mobile and a lot more relevant to actual operations.
    I'm sure I'll post more when I,ve got less lager onboard :thumright:
  10. Fost is relevant, the best training in the world, as many foreign navies testify. It is also the best way to gel a ships company into one fighting efficient grey messenger of death.
    My original point is, it now takes 11 weeks to achieve what we use to do in 6.
    FOST is now also a policy maker, therefore it now has a hand in not just how the navy is trained, but how it is run, hmmmmm vested interest, feathering one'e own nest etc etc.
    Joe Crow is right about the amount of bods in FOST as well, is it becoming too big and unwieldy? Did my FF really require 120 seariders on our staff sea check?
    Plus what happened to Cornwall in the Gulf, has had massive repercussions in how Sea Training is now delivered, and the standards have been somewhat elevated by FOST to ensure that the **** up never happens again. Unfortunately F99 is now reaping that particular whirlwind, poor *******.
  11. You have to do fost regularly because the wardroom changes regularly and they need to tick the box for their next step up the career ladder.
  12. BOST, COST, DOST done them. Annoying yes, pain in the ass yes, Useful yes!

    Certain aspects i enjoyed like major spoex's and the distex's.
  13. tiddlyoggy

    tiddlyoggy War Hero Book Reviewer

    Some of the posters here have some short memories. Either that or I've been on some dipping out ships. We're not achieving in 11 weeks what we used to achieve in 6. Do you not recall some of the incredibly long work-ups that some ships have done, when programmes weren't as tight and ships had more influence in their BOST run ups? By my experience that has sometimes (often) been longer than 11 weeks in total. Also, I'm amazed that nobody so far has pointed out that we probably train more foreign ships than Brits. I'm sure we don't do that for free! See where I'm going here? Yes, that which rules everything in the modern RN, money! Personally, I think BOST is still an excellent training medium, providing that the FOSTies remember that their role is to train and not self promote, carry out personal vendettas, ridicule etc. All of which I'm sure those of us with any length of service will have witnessed and could probably put some names to those sea riders who were guilty. Now, that would be interesting, the same names would crop up a lot I'm sure! I also think that one of the worst things for Guzz rates is doing it here, it devalues it immensely as a team building exercise. Bring back Portland!
  14. As an FOST instructor, I was astiunded when I joined Drake to find that the majority of WO1's had not been to sea and lived it for quite some considerable time and had therefore printed their own personal stamp on the training rather than what should be taught. These guys need to re-read the books, spend some time at sea doing it and then talk with some authority. Having said that - FOST is still the best traing anywhere in the world. YOU HEAR THAT YANKS!!!
  15. Please go easy as this is my first post, although I have visited the site a few times.
    I've recently left the RN after 23 years so I feel able to comment on this thread.
    I have completed many OST's both at Portland and Guzz and I think that in the main the one's at Portland were better in so far as not many people lived in Portland out of the Ship's company and so we gelled a little better.
    My main bug bear of all the OST's I did was that the FOST staff would aways say "Why are you doing it like that?" You would say that the last time we were here that's what we were taught. They would then instigate a new method which you would adopt.
    The next time you return for training you end up back at square one.
    I think it's true to say many FOST staff have been ashore too long away from the front line and are not in touch with what is going on in the Fleet.
  16. I'll preface this by saying it's a loooon time snce I've done a BOST, COST or any other kind of workup.

    It seems though that the worst thing that ever happened to FOST was leaving Portland. Only ht eflight were ever RA there so at least you had a full ships company together all week and apart from the marred lads at weekends too. There was many a debrief in the Breakwater as the mess cleared before the evening FOSTis evolution, firex, etc. where we "discussed" the days activities and how we could 1 up the seariders. It sems that back then, especially post '82 FOST was really trying to teach you how to fight the ship and survive, not acting like a look at me I know everything just ask me and I'll tell you bunch. Back then FOST was full of been there done that, learned this lesson blokes who had valuable things to say and on the whole we listened, they really were instructors not black cat merchants, the teams all had experience on the type of ship they were seariders on, so a T42 guy never messed about on a T21. Don't get me wrong Staff Sea Check (SSC), was always a btch and we could never secure for sea to their satisfaction, but when a ship left Portland after 6 weeks of BOST we knew our stuff, had a great team spirit and looked forward to our deployment as a ay to blow off steam and try some of the stuff we had just practiced.

    Still the best part about any Portland work-up was Summer time in Weymouth, fantastic memories.
  17. Now the dust has settled a bit, perhaps it is time to come back to that one. The reason foriegn navies use FOST is that they want to save themselves the expense of running there own sea training orgs. That hardly justifies the comment best in the world. Perhaps a good start would be to make it a requirement to have completed a full sea draft in each rate before serving at FOST. There is a massive credibility gap at the moment, and addressing that would be a good start.
  18. Having spent 18 months at Portland as part of FOST staff I can only agree with most of the comments on this subject. It was a superb draft, only spoilt by some of the **** sea riders (don't make me laugh if it was over force 4 there was always a good excuse not to go) I was not a sea rider but worked in the comcen on PXN which was the busiest morse circuit. Sad sod that I was I loved it. After leaving Portland I joined the Plymouth out of refit in Chatham and, of course, back to Portland for workup. Must say I enjoyed that bit as well, it held no fears as I knew half of the "old and bold" didn't have a clue about our equipment and, in some cases, had never had a proper sea draft for years. It was still a good experience and yes the ships company came together, although we had already done than by living in 1 mess at HMS Pembroke. (Didn't count though) Must say loved Portland so much am going for a couple of weeks holiday in Weymouth in middle of Sept, no ships now and no chance of getting in the dockyard. :thumright:
  19. For those that did FOST before and after the Falklands, quite a change huh
  20. can someone please enlighten me as to what BOST, COST, DOST, EOST etc are.

    if you mean the Partial TAG sign that appeared on my door then I'm with you -

    otherwise, a sphincter says what

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