Telegraph: "Fighter Jets About-Turn 'Will Harm Capability’"

Discussion in 'The Fleet Air Arm' started by soleil, Apr 20, 2012.

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  1. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    No shit. This isn't about capability, its about HMT reigning back MoD.
  2. secret paper!!!! oh my.
  3. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    worries me that an alleged SUKEO document has been passed on, and again that a paper is irresponsible enough to mention it......
  4. The arguements go on,:frown: ad nauseum
  5. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    Lets see..

    Admiral: I don't want the B variant, it doesn't do what we want!
    Head of Capability: well Sir, HMT say the C variant is too expensive. We get what we can afford, not what we need or asked for.
    Admiral: MA come here, I have a job for you....
    MA: but Sir, that's SUKEO

    Not saying that happened but this is solely a political game
  6. And start quoting the alleged scenarios - part of the sensitivity is the political.

    Yes, real-world geography and political situations get used because it's much more demanding and realistic than making stuff up - but to my knowledge we're not actually preparing to put "Them" into Chad. The scenario would have picked Chad (for example) because it's a difficulty country to get to and operate in, but we know enough about it to actually appreciate the problems, so it's a good "what-if" for "SF raid far from home with very little local support or infrastructure".

    However, the government of Chad may now be a little aggrieved that we're supposedly accusing them of harbouring terrorists and planning a "Wild Geese" raid against them... which is part of the reason documents like this supposed piece get the protective marking it does.

    If someone's really leaking SUKEO stuff to the Press then they need to be stamped down on hard, especially because they evidently don't understand what they're passing around...
  7. Really hope not - what happened to "integrity"?

    Firstly, you shouldn't do it unless you've absolutely definitely got to blow the whistle, in which case do it loud and open.

    Or if you must do it and feel you have to be sneaky, do it yourself. When Lord West of Spithead (as he now is) mislaid some protectively marked material on a Reading towpath in 1986, he didn't delegate an SO3 to the task...
  8. Absolutely agree re the SUKEO stuff.

    What is not happening here is a real questioning of the supposed "conversion" costs. £2Bn cannot be right, endex. If folk have added non-conversion elements (eg training etc) in then they aren't EPP conversion costs and need to come out.

    The crux of this is not the capability - that's a known, it's these fantasy costings......
  9. wave_dodger

    wave_dodger War Hero Book Reviewer

    And you really believe he did that off his own back?
  10. You guys must get tired of all the bashing of the CVF fiasco, but as an outside observer it is very shocking that things have been going down this slippery slope until you have arrived at critical mass. I find myself wondering what the hell they are doing at the MoD, because some glaring capabilities are making the UK not only vulnerable as an island nation, but also a 3rd rate Naval power. How can you possibly have any kind of amphibious capability and NOT have air superiority over the beachhead? How can you possibly hope to control the SLOC that feed trade into the UK without an adequate ASW force AND have ships to escort the CVFs and/or Amphibious forces? How can you let your ENTIRE Long-Range Patrol Aircraft capability die on the vine with no replacement?
    All of the above must be very frustrating for the people that do the day-to-day hard work of the Royal Navy. If it wasn't for the caliber of people and their training it would be far worse, but you have to give the people the tools to the job. The slow dismantling of the UK's military is a difficult thing to witness and it is absolutely foolish to allow your liberal parliment to keep doling out the "goodies" to the population for the purposes of maintaining power. It is a dangerous course that the UK is charting for itself, and it is a preview of what is heading our way across the pond...Many of us that are (or were in my case) professional sailors stand ready to be at your side like we always have been, but that is going to be even more difficult in the future.
    God save the Queen and I am very proud of my own British heritage...

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